#82 – Slap and Sledge (Cheesy Versus Helpful Marketing)


Freedom Ocean hosts James Schramko and Tim Reid are back after a lengthy hiatus. In this episode, they share feedback on each other’s latest projects: Timbo’s new book and James’ recently concluded joint webinar on memberships with Andrew Lock. Tune in as Tim delivers a weighty sledge, and James a slap to the back for his FO co-host.

De Niro lookalike?

De Niro lookalike?

In the episode:

02:57 – Switching forum platforms
06:58 – The scene for the sledge
08:57 – Dirty tactics?
10:01 – In defense of the webinar
13:20 – A question of style
17:06 – Was it the air fare?
19:23 – Views of Uluru
20:26 – The Boomerang Effect
24:23 – A hard question to answer
27:19 – Why Timbo’s book isn’t on Amazon
28:58 – Is a Boomerang Event next?
31:33 – What Tim’s listening to
33:35 – De Niro says hello


Aim to be one layer back from your tools. [Click To Tweet]

You’ve got to know what you’re good at, and pass everything else off. [Click To Tweet]

There is nothing more valuable you can give someone than your own time. [Click To Tweet]
Tim’s favorite podcasts:
Here’s The Thing
Car Talk
Robert De Niro’s Waiting by Bananarama


Internet Marketing Products & Resources

Here you’ll find Tim and James have some things to help your business become more powerful.

Tim: Welcome back, listeners, to an overdue episode of your favorite internet marketing podcast, Freedom Ocean. I’m one of your hosts, Timbo Reid, and right there is Jimmy James Schramko. Good day, mate.

James: Hello, Timbo, how are you?

Tim: Yes, I’m wonderful. It’s lovely to be back in the warm waters of the ocean.

James: You know, the waters are still warm, which is lovely. It’s still boardshorts weather. Even though the outside weather starts to cool, the water lags behind it.

Tim: Ah! So we’re your favorite meteorology podcast as well.

James: You know, it’s so funny that I’m now looking at wind charts and tide charts. I wouldn’t have ever predicted that. But you can literally get a feel for what the weather is about to be by using these surf apps. It’s amazing.

Tim: Oh well, we were just laughing about some of the names modern software has. And it’s also amazing what’s just available these days to us, isn’t it? There’s an app for everything. I don’t know about you, but I have got… I don’t know, I’ve certainly purged a lot of apps, but I’ve still probably got about 30 apps on my iPhone, of which I probably use 4.

James: Yeah, we did a post on tools that I use in the business, and I was surprised that there’s quite a lot. But there’s one major change these days, and I call it the one layer back. And that is, my goal for running the business is I just want to be a layer back from the tools. It’s OK if we have some of the tools, but I don’t want to use them. I just want to use Slack. And it’s OK if the tools are used by the team, but I just want to interact with the team on Slack.

Tim: You don’t want to be on the tools.

James: I don’t need too many emails, I don’t need to be logging into WordPress or Nanacast or my forums’ backend administration panel and stuff. That’s team stuff, or LeadPages or Webinar software. I’d rather just go to Slack, and of course I’m logging into my forum every day. Those are the main two things that I use these days.

From vBulletin to Xenforo
Tim: Speaking of forums, Jimmy, I am in the process, and my God, has it been a process, of moving from vBulletin to Xenforo. Oh, man, nothing’s easy in this internet marketing world, James.

James: Oh, I didn’t have any struggle with it. What was your challenge?

Tim: Oh, you never do, mate.

James: Well, I get the Dave on it.

Tim: Well, yeah, Dave was great to a point, but he’s not a Xenforo guy.

James: Really? Because that’s what I use for three of my forums.

Tim: Yeah, well it’s beautiful, it is the most elegant forum software I’ve ever seen. Not that I’ve seen that many, but I tell you what, it sh**s all over vBulletin, and vBulletin, if you are listening, founders, creators, programmers, it is the worst piece of software known to man right now.

James: I heard that the team kind of up and left and started Xenforo, because they had visions of a better version, and when vBulletin wasn’t being supported well, we rolled out the new Fiber or whatever it was, and it sucked, it broke.

Tim: Oh man.

James: When we went to Xenforo, it went across really smoothly, and my members love it. It’s a great platform.

Tim: Yeah, no. I’m nearly there. I got a wonderful fellow out of the U.K. who I found on the Xenforo forum, who’s helping me. But it’s interesting, mate. I mean certainly, I’m not on the tools there, because it’s way too technical, and it’s a great reminder that you’ve just got to surround yourself with A players, and you’ve got to just, you’ve got to know what you’re good at, and cash flow allowing, pass everything else off.

James: Yeah, you know, you mentioned that in your book that some smaller businesses have limited budgets. But you could do yourself a world of harm trying to wade into technical soup. And things like a forum, they’re such a big payoff that it really is not a resource-greedy thing to run if you’re doing it right. The amount of return on your investment is huge if you get it going a bit earlier and open them.

I actually had a client going through this recently, she just delayed and delayed opening, and it’s costing her, I reckon it’s costing her 30 grand a month, every month she doesn’t open the door, because she’s not in the market participating, and she really wanted to have it just right before she opens, and I said, “Just start it, and let your members build it with you. Involve them in the journey. I bet your members will be excited about a new platform and they’ll feel like they’re part of an experience.” It’s not a bad thing to get going and then to change platforms. I’ve done it three times. I changed the name of it three times.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, we can worry a little bit too much, can’t we? We can get a little bit too uptight and perfectionist type, and God, imagine the money we’re leaving on the table, as you say, for that member of yours, 30 grand a month.

This episode, by the way listeners, it’s going to be a slap and a sledge. That’s what we’re going to title it, that’s what we’re going to do.

James: That’s heavy.

Tim: Yeah, it is heavy. And you can feel free to kind of reword that Jimmy, but from what I understand, James and I, we know what we’re going to speak about, but we don’t know the detail of it. From what I understand, James has for me, a slap on the back for my new book, “The Boomerang Effect,” which came out about 3 weeks ago. And I have a sledge for James for a webinar that he and mate Andrew Lock ran last week, on forums. Now this will be quite interesting, Jimmy, because you don’t know what I’m going to say to you.

James: I have no idea, and you know I’m the sensitive type as well.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s right.

James: Interesting you said “forums,” because I didn’t think that that was what the membership training was about, at all.

Tim: Yeah, interesting. Well, I certainly thought it was about forums. It’s not so much what it was… what did you think it was about, out of interest?

Listen, before we go, Jimmy, let’s get stuck into that part of it. I’ll give you a sledge before you give me a slap on the back, but…

James: That sounds horribly unfair.

Tim: Yeah, correct. What it is, you have to remember, this is a podcast where you make millions of dollars from internet marketing, and I’ve got a million questions. I’m representing the listeners, so my questions are very valid, and I could be really wrong. I’m cool with that. I just want to learn, right?

James: Yeah, yeah.

James and Andrew’s webinar
Tim: So listeners, James, last week, to set the scene, ran a webinar in which he brought on a friend of his, Andrew Lock, who you may know from Help My Business!, wonderful podcast series, it’s been going for years, for small businesses. And Andrew presented the upside of why we should all have a membership program, which I interpreted as being a forum, why we should have a membership program as one of our revenue streams. OK? That’s what you did, yeah, Jimmy?

James: It’s close. I’d have a different definition on it.

Tim: Go on.

James: Well, I’m not sure that he said everyone should have one, but I think he was saying it’s one of the easiest ways to present information, and the second part is, it’s definitely not forum-specific. It’s probably more to do with a membership, and a membership doesn’t have to involve a community, and he did sort of spell that out in the training. That’s only one aspect of a membership. It’s the one I prefer, the forum-style membership.

Tim: But you could have video training, like Jules does with iVideo Hero, you could have…

James: Yeah. It’s very popular to put together, compile a bunch of information, put it into an enclosed area, and then to provide access and then you can have it as a one-time thing, but he was a big fan of the ongoing need, where there’s an ongoing demand type.

Dirty marketing?
Tim: My sledge is really simple. It’s nothing to do with, I mean what he was proposing, I’m in full agreeance with, you know, have a membership-based site. You and I both got forums, they’re wonderful. I just felt we’d gone back about 12 years in the way internet marketers present information. I just felt I was sitting in, like, 2006, where he was showing me the photos of him flying around in the Lear jet and that’s all he takes these days and that he built up the idea, you know, he shared a little bit of information but not too much, and then he kind of gave us the, you know, you get this, and you get this, and you get this, and you get this, and it’s all this is how much it costs, but I’m not going to charge you this, and then he kind of brought us back, down to a small number, which I’m guessing probably worked, but it felt a bit dirty.

James: Yeah, I can understand that. I actually wrote down as the webinar went through, what was happening at that point, as a formula.

Tim: And it was so formulaic, which was, I have massive respect for formula…

James’s defense
James: Well, I did speak to him about that afterwards, actually, and neither of us liked that that sort of stuff is presented that way. However, the problem is, if you really want to help someone, you actually need to do that, because otherwise they won’t take the action, and it absolutely works. You see a 30 percent conversion ratio using a formula like that.

I didn’t think it was dirty, though. I think it was predictable, yes. It was well-used, and you’ll see it in pretty much every single product formula launch that’s gone out and going out to this day in whatever market. There’s just the elements of a sales story that if they appear in that sequence, will cause sales.

But I know what you’re saying, especially just having published a book about helpful marketing. That’s what the difference between education and selling is. If you want to sell, you need to sell, and you need to create a transition from the time someone starts to the time they finish that has them seeing a gap that they’re prepared to invest in and to further their situation. So let’s just take that to the next step. Someone coming to that training, let’s say there’s been actually nearly 50 sales of that product. Those people then go on to develop…

Tim: What was the price point, remind me? $997?

James: $990. Not $997, because it sounds cheap and tacky.

Tim: (Laughs) Correct.

James: So $990. Those people go on, and now they get education, they get learning. If you looked at some of the proof shots that I insisted were in there, they’ve sold 37,000 memberships of the $39 per month. They know what they’re doing, to compile that information. It’s all bona fide and based on fact. So someone getting access to that information for $990, right? A few things. One, they’re getting the information that they could now use in their own life.

Now, one of the people who bought it, is consulting to a business person who wants a membership. Now this person can make back 10 times their investment by selling a done-for-you service to set up a membership for this person. But let’s say conservatively they only get 3 to 5 times that. So they immediately get a return on investment. The other thing is, bundled in with that was software that was valued at more than the purchase price of the product.

And the third element was, for the people who took action live, I actually involve my own time, and there is nothing more valuable that I can give someone than my own time, because that’s literally transferring part of my life to them. And for some people, that time with me will be worth a lot more to them than $990, because I only need to show them a few things that they can do, or give them a really powerful idea, that has a far greater leveraged upside than $990. And that’s assuming that they never even look at the course or they don’t use the software.

Tim Vs. Andrew
Tim: Yeah. Again, I’m not challenging the content of what he’s selling, I’m just challenging the way he went about it.

James: Well, you know, I went through it in great detail, and as I said I took notes. But you know, even on your own podcast you’re publishing information to people about what stories should be in their business. I don’t think you’re any different.

Tim: Oh, I do. I think I’m massively different. If you’re comparing me to the forum, that webinar last week…

James: Well, you don’t sell quite as well.

Tim: No, I don’t.

James: But you have harnessed the idea that we should be using stories in our business. It just so happens that the story that Andrew used, and yes, it is a bit cheesy, and he’s not excited about that, and I certainly aren’t, it’s definitely not my style…

Tim: Oh, I reckon he loves it. It’s not your style at all.

James: Definitely not my style.

Tim: It was completely off brand for you.

James: Well, it was not my webinar. I was just bringing the people to the story.

Tim: It was your webinar in my book.

James: Well, I definitely facilitated it, and I definitely feel that it can really help my customers, so that ticks boxes. I was definitely fussy about what is in it, the content, the proof elements and the deliverables, and I back that.

The guy is a very good salesperson, very effective formula, and the notes that I took really will form the basis for an effective webinar, and I would suggest that anyone who wants to sell via webinar could learn from that, even if they don’t love it, and there’s definitely some elements they should be using. If you’re not putting a before and after story somewhere in your message, you’re probably missing out.

Tim: I would have liked to have seen, it would have been nice to even see a couple for whom it didn’t work, and also a couple of before and afters who were just doing 2 grand a month.

James: That’s exactly what I said.

Tim: So we’re on the same path, mate, that’s good.

James: We actually have the same value system and everything, I’m just sort of stepping it back from it and factually explaining what happened, and why it’s so effective. I mean, you can ask anyone. To get over 30 percent conversions at $1,000 is definitely an effective selling formula. But there was some good information in there. There were some real jewels dropped, especially the one about not trying to sell a membership directly, which you and I both know, and it’s super important. That was a huge, huge chunk of gold. Let’s also address the fact that the webinar was free. You have to invest time.

Tim: Exactly. You’re the first one to talk about… time’s not free. I don’t think it’s free.

James: But I think there was good enough ideas exchanged in the material that he presented to get a return on your free time.

Tim: Yep. Fair call.

James: And for the people who went on, I’m obviously monitoring their success and I’m sure I’ll be a part of it, with the extra bonus that I put in there. So I’m looking forward to seeing what they do with it.

Tim: Well, I’m glad we had that discussion. It was either going to end our friendship or make us closer. I feel a little bit closer to you, Jimmy. Big hug over the airwaves, mate.

James: Thank you.

Tim: Love you like a brother.

James: Yeah, and what we’ve discovered from that is that, I feel all of that stuff too, I don’t like it, and maybe there’s a part of us, when you look at that… I mean, I did crack a joke in there, I remember, about the red outfit.

Tim: Yes, yes.

James: For f***’s sake. That’s just hilarity.

Tim: Yeah.

Is it the travel class?
James: And maybe it’s just because we’ve stuffed ourselves into economy air fares, we know that it’s a bit of wankery. But I think if it causes someone to think for a minute, hang on, why is he doing that? What’s he done that’s got him in a position where he can do that? We don’t know anything about the air fare. Maybe it was a gift, maybe someone else paid for it, maybe…

Tim: I hope not, because the way I’d read it, that’s the only way he flies.

James: Right. Well, I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be. But he definitely…

Tim: I think he said it. But hey, look, anyway, let’s let go of the detail. What we’ve learned is that that formula for that webinar that you ran last week about membership businesses works, the style, the tone, you could probably alter. It probably works better in America than it does in Australia.

James: Oh, most definitely, and he’s aware of that. I mean, he’s an Englishman…

Tim: An Englishman living in Utah.

James: But he has honed that webinar to sell, and I’ll give him full credit. It’s a template that I’ve definitely paid attention to, and when I said it’s not my webinar, I’m saying if it was my course that I’m selling and I’m the primary presenter, you’re going to see it with a slightly different style. But I will straight out say, I think that the template that he used is very clever, and I would definitely be adding in elements like telling people what would happen if they don’t take action, and showing them how to do the before and after without looking like a cheesy nob, that’s hard.

I saw a guy today on Facebook, standing next to an exotic car, and he was so lazy with his posturing that he said, “Oh, I’m thinking about buying one of these.” So he didn’t even bother to rent it for the picture. And certainly didn’t buy it. He’s just thinking about getting one of these. I mean, that’s the ultimate wank.

Tim: Oh, it’s gold, isn’t it? Mate, I tell you what, it gives the industry a bad name when people are doing that kind of stuff.

James: Yeah, I think we’re on the same page.

Tim: We are.

James: We don’t like that cocky posturing, and most people have no idea about some of the things that I enjoy, because I don’t want to get on Facebook and just turn it into a curated brag fest, it’s appalling.

Tim: Don’t get me started.

Uluru adventures
James: I’d rather post pictures from Pinterest or something that are humorous and just engage people, or share a picture of a rock or something, if I’m touristing, just because it’s interesting. Two kilometers wide and 3 kilometers long, that thing is a beast.

Tim: What?

James: Uluru.

Tim: Oh, that’s so funny you mentioned that, my son got back from there yesterday with his grandmum. Just had 5 days up there taking photos for his portfolio, for end of year. And he’s been in a chopper going around Uluru, he did the 11-kilometer walk around Uluru. There’s some light thing going on there, where there’s tens of thousands of miniature lights that have been laid all around.

James: Yup. An installation, I saw that from the helicopter ride as well.

Tim: Oh, you’ve been?

James: Yeah, it was just a week or so ago.

Tim: Oh, didn’t know that.

James: Yeah. Well see, there you go. I’m not over-bragging, obviously.

Tim: Oh, man, good on you.

We’ll have an episode down the track on social media.

James: Yeah. Why don’t we talk about something far more interesting?

Tim’s recent book
Tim: Well, now that I’ve given you an absolute sledge and you took it like a brother, can you give me a slap on the back for “The Boomerang Effect”?

James: Thank you for sending me the book. Thank you for the mention, that was lovely, unexpected. And I noticed Freedom Ocean didn’t cop a mention in the co-hosted podcast section, but that’s alright. It is a great book. Really good, even the first few lines you get the personality coming through nice and strong. I can even imagine it in your voice.

Tim: Good.

James: (Imitating Tim’s accent) “Win-win. I reckon that saying’s been around for about as long as marketing itself. If I had a dollar for every time someone said it, I’d be a multimillionaire by now.”

I liked the book. It had good information, I’ve highlighted lots of important points. I loved how you talked about the difference between push marketing and, my favorite quote, “It’s all about pulling.” That was the conversation we had about 5 minutes ago.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

James: “Imagine creating marketing that people would actually pay for,” that was lovely. Good layman’s explanation of Google. You did talk yourself up a bit, I must say.

Tim: Go on.

James: Well, you’re a number one ranked podcast, you travel around the world…

Tim: True. Tick.

James: Sixty-three conferences in 12 months across 8 countries.

Tim: Just dealing facts, James, just dealing in the facts.

James: It’s good. But you have to posture just a little bit, I suppose, for them to feel that the rest of the book is going to be valid, right?

Tim: Well, yeah, and I’ve never been very good at posturing. If people ask, I like to give them, you know, “Tell us what you do, and you know, what’s your hook and all that?” I’m happy to tell them, but some are better than others, and Andrew Lock is a genius at it. But, oh, good on you, mate, they’re lovely words, thank you, and I’m getting really nice feedback. I get very consistent feedback from people that it’s written with a personality, with my own personality.

James: Definitely written with a personality. It’s definitely easy to read, read the whole thing last night. I read two books last night. Two podcasts today, and these days I actually plan and prepare. I highlighted all sorts of things in this book, it’s kind of like a teacher’s copy.

Tim: Good on you. What would you say… I can explain what the boomerang effect is and what the book’s about, but maybe in your own words, do you want to just do the kind of two-sentence synopsis?

James: Well, you know, from an Australian, we know that a boomerang, you throw it out there and it comes back. Basically if you do helpful marketing, good things will come to you.

Tim: Yeah.

James: Basically, you’re calling content marketing helpful marketing, is what I got from it.

Tim: Correct.

James: And so this book is really, it’s kind of like a really good overview of content marketing, and you’ve got lots and lots of experience in some, but you’ve also mentioned quite a few of the ones that you’re doing now, and why it’s a good time to be doing it, and you’ve given some clear examples of the difference between helpful marketing and not. And I like this, “Don’t start if you’re not prepared, but don’t wait until everything’s perfect, either, because it never will be.” It’s very practical advice.

Tim: And you know, you say helpful marketing’s my version of content marketing. I would argue too that there’s no shortage of content, I think then the filter is like, will it be helpful, or how will it be helpful? I mean, first of all, acknowledge that you’re standing on a mountain of knowledge, as a business owner, whether you’re a vet, whether you are a plumber. Whatever you are, you know a lot about what it is you do, so my argument is share it. Share it via video…

James: Yeah. Pop it in a membership site…

Tim: Yeah.

Put on the spot
James: Book your private jet. It’s all good. It was pretty confronting, too, when you were asked in a conference about how many people actually implement this stuff.

Tim: Yeah.

James: Was that hard for you to do? Because you’re kind of saying, well, my stuff’s not actionable, or I’m speaking to deaf ears?

Tim: It’s a great question. So what James is referring to is a conference I spoke at, where a couple of hundred people in the room, and shared my knowledge, shared my keynote, and it went down really well, and then during the Q and A section a bloke said, “Loved it. Loved your work, Timbo, I can see how it would work. But how many people in this room do you actually think are going to action what you have to say?”

And I remember feeling at the time, hmm, do I lie? Or do I tell them what I really think? And of course, I’m not into lying, because then you’ve got to remember what you said. My view was, I said a handful, 2, 3, 4 people maybe in the room will action. And I don’t think it’s a reflection of what I shared, because I know that the way I share things and what I share is very practical and simple, from a marketing perspective. I just think that people, I know, I know, that they will go back from that conference, they’re back in the office, and before they know it they’re sucked into the vortex of email and client calls and social media, and they forget to action.

James: Yeah. It’s really about… My first podcast today was with Craig Ballantyne, and we were talking about the perfect day formula. And he’s got a fitness and training background, but a lot of it’s about routines, morning routine and afternoon routine. I think what’s lacking in the world is discipline. I mean, keeping in mind, there’s guys and girls sitting around headquarters at Facebook (this is something Dan Dobos shared at my event) scheming to figure out how they can keep you on their platform. You’re up against professional distractionalists. They are, I don’t know if that’s a word, I just made that up.

Tim: It’s a great word. And we are up against cats falling off ladders.

James: You know what, in your book, you used the Australian version of focused.

Tim: What’s that?

James: Something about, get focused.

Tim: Yeah, right.

James: And you put 2 S’s in it.

Tim: Trivia players.

James: Yeah, well it just jumped out at me. I can’t take credit for picking it up, someone was reading over my shoulder, he’s a better speller of English than me.

Tim: Ah.

James: It was interesting you’ve made it an Australian feel.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, that’s how we roll around here, mate. So listeners, a plug: go to SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com, and there’s a button that says, “Book,” and you can buy a copy, and I’ll send it to you. I’ll send you a signed copy.

Why not Amazon?
James: I did have one complaint. Someone said they wanted to just grab it, pop onto Amazon and buy it and they couldn’t. You decided to just sell it directly.

Tim: Great question.

James: What about putting it on the world’s biggest marketplace, would that be for a marketer?

Tim: Yeah, Jimmy, I’ll get there. Mate, you know, OK, I wrote and printed that book because first and foremost, I have a large audience of conference goers. Because I speak at a lot of conferences, one thing I’ve noticed over the last 2 years is that people say, “Can we buy something from you? What else have you got?” And I never had anything, right? So the first thing was to get that book into the hands of conference organizers, and that’s already happening. So now, when I get booked for a conference, I say, “Would you like to buy a quantity of books?” and right there I’m selling a hundred, 200, 300 copies, just there and then to the organizer. If they don’t want to buy copies off me, I can then say, “Do you mind if I sell it after I’ve spoken?” And during the break. They all say yes.

So that’s my first two. The second group is the listeners of the Small Business Big Marketing show, which is my other podcast, my other lover. And my forum members. And I’m just selling that off my website, signed copies directly off my website. I’ll get it onto Amazon, I’ll do an audiobook version and do all that type of stuff, but…

James: Oh, you would be the perfect person for an audiobook.

Tim: Oh, mate, it’s 48,000 words. The idea of doing that, with my attention deficit disorder…

James: You could talk under water, Timbo.

Tim: With a mouthful of marbles.

Is an event next?
James: What I’m looking forward to is The Boomerang Event. The 300-person workshop, thousand bucks a head.

Tim: I know, I know.

James: That would be a great… Speaking at your own event is special.

Tim: Yeah, well I can imagine mate, and you are the master of it, and I admire what you do with SuperFastBusiness, and the way you put those… it’s Fast Web, isn’t it? What’s your event called?

James: No, it’s actually all SuperFastBusiness now.

Tim: SuperFastBusiness, that’s your one and only brand?

James: Well, I do have SilverCircle. That’s the other one and only brand. But it kind of just sits off the side. It’s had a 3-year waiting list, if you can believe. People are just wedged in there tight. They just don’t leave, and then referrals push their way through from just existing members, it’s unbelievable. But yeah, I don’t often talk about that. But that’s a great little business on the side. But SuperFastBusiness is my main focus now, having figured out how to sell the service businesses, it’s been a big transition.

Tim: And you’re loving it. And you know, those events that you put on, I can imagine. You love bringing that community together, and they love catching up with you, and you do it really well.

James: For you though, what it would do is support your forum with some great material, it’d force you to do some frameworks and checklists and bring in some experts, maybe Seth Godin will come and talk at one of your events.

Tim: Who? Seth?

James: He could make you some coffee…

Tim: Is he a fellow author?

James: I think he published a book. Purple something or other.

Tim: Oh, Seth. That just haunts me. Every week or two I get someone emailing me or commenting about, oh, you know, “I saw Seth here, you should get him on.” Or, “Is Seth doing the round of podcasts now, because he’s got a new book out.” Mate, I’m over him.

James: People say that about Richard Branson. You know, “Do you want to go to his island?” “No, he can come to my island.”

Tim: (Laughs)

James: It’s not paying 65 grand to get a picture with Richard.

Tim: I get a bit sick, too… I’m sick and tired of, because I listen to so many podcasts, you see the same people kind of appearing on a whole lot of different podcasts, and that’s good, they’re smart, it’s certainly good strategy for them to get profiled. But I don’t need Seth or Branson.

Tim’s fave podcasts
James: Well, as a consumer, yeah, you can just be over.

Tim: What are you listening to? Let’s finish up with just a quick favorite podcast that you’re listening to, that maybe isn’t business-related, Jimmy.

Oh, you break my heart.

James: I don’t listen to podcasts. The closest related thing that I would come to is watching the World Surfing League app on my phone. That’s my media consumption enjoyment.

Tim: OK.

James: So that might be surprising. Shocking.

Tim: Well, that was a conversation killer. I’ll go two, then, given that you can’t share one. I’m loving Alec Baldwin’s “Here’s The Thing.” Alec Baldwin the actor, he’s got an amazing podcast where he goes to the homes of his famous mates like John McEnroe or Seinfeld, or Billy Joel, and they just kind of shoot the breeze for an hour. That’s pretty cool.

And I am really liking a podcast, and I have no interest in cars, Jimmy, but there’s a podcast called “Car Talk,” and it’s hosted by these two brothers out of Boston called Click and Clack, the Tappet brothers, and they’re just really funny. They have a wonderful ability of turning a topic that I’m not even interested in, making it interesting and funny, so there’s a couple of shows that I’m listening to at the moment.

James: Oh, that’s a good share, thank you. We’ll list those in show notes on FreedomOcean.com.

Tim: Yeah. This is Episode 82. Eighty-two. Two.

James: Look at us go, hey?

Tim: Alright, my little mate over there in downtown Sydney, oh, you’re not really downtown Sydney, you’re out of Sydney on the shores of…

James: Just a 25-minute ferry ride.

Tim: Ferry. I think it’s a bit less of you get the fast ferry, isn’t it?

James: You can, but the old one’s got more pizzazz.

Tim: Yeah.

James: It’s got a bit of character.

Tim: I agree!

James: It’s more stable.

Tim: Big old diesel engine, stomping away.

Celeb lookalikes?
James: Sure, they don’t serve alcohol. The Greek guy on there, he calls me “Robert De Niro.” Every time I catch a ferry to the city to go to the airport or whatever, he shouts out, “Hey, Robert De Niro, good to see you again!”

Tim: Why?

James: I don’t know. My hair, and if I wear sunglasses to shield my eyes from the sun…

Tim: Your hair? Are you delusional?

James: I swear to God, he calls me Robert De Niro.

Tim: Jimmy, how much hair do you think you’ve got?

James: Well, I’ve got probably getting up around 10 centimeters, now. (Both laugh)

Tim: I thought you were going to answer in terms of the amount of follicles you have.

James: No. But it brushes back.

Tim: Oh, I love it.

James: He most often sees me in the morning, you know, I’ve just had a shower, it’s still wet, I just brush it back, and I’m usually heading off to the airport, because I fly every now and then. Not as much as you, Tim, not as much as Andrew.

Tim: Yeah, thank you, James.

James: I do fly somewhere.

Tim: There used to be a song, oh, there probably still is a song, I think it was called, “Robert De Niro’s Waiting.” And it was by either the Bangles, or Bananarama. And I would love it if you walked on the Manly ferry one day, and that bloke had it blasting out of the stereo.

James: Oh. He’s a good guy, he’s always there, too. He’s a good guy.

Tim: I did a series of events for Australia Post around the country, and I was the emcee, and it annoys me a bit, but when my hair’s longer, I look a bit (I can’t believe I’m saying this) I look a little bit like David Hasselhoff, from when he was in Baywatch.

James: Yeah, I can see it, I can see it. Put some little red togs, you’re all there.

Tim: So the sound guy, as I was walking on, and I had an ear piece in, so he was like the producer of the event, so I’ve got an ear piece in, he can talk to me, but no one else can hear, and as I’m walking onto the stage, he’s playing the Baywatch theme in my ear. And it puts a smile on my face. Some people go, “Oh, he’s a happy emcee, isn’t he? Goodness me, he’s going to be funny.” Anyway.

James: Well, anyone catching the Manly ferry, if you get on, I think it’s the Freshwater, if you see the Greek cafe guy, just say Robert De Niro says “Hello.”

Tim: I love it. Alright, buddy, love your work, thanks for taking it like a man earlier, and thank you for the wonderful sledge, slap on the back I should say. And I’ll see you in the ocean, next time.

James: Thanks Tim, and congratulations on publishing an amazing book.

Tim: Stop it.

James: This is real.

Tim: We should leave a call to action. Listeners, head over to FreedomOcean.com, if you want to find out more about the show. Bye for now.

James: Buh-bye.


  1. Garrick Jackson says

    Great episode Gents. Tim, thanks for your comments on the recent webinar run by Andrew and James. I listened to it live and had similar feelings with regards some elements of the presentation, however as pointed out by James, the effectiveness of Andrew’s template is undeniable. Enjoyed listening to you both stating your cases and being respectful of the others feedback. Tim, congratulations on publishing The Boomerang Effect; and James; looking forward to your book in due course.

  2. Great to hear you two back in my earbuds while doing my morning routine (been way to long). Congrats Tim on the book, I think James is right an audio version would be great, I consume my books on the kindle. But looks like I need to bite and go old school this time.

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