#8 Affiliate Marketing – Everything you ever wanted to know.


The episode where we dive head first in to the deep waters of Affiliate Marketing. In fact, between Tim’s and some listener questions, we leave no stone (or should that be coral!) unturned.

  • What is affiliate marketing?
  • How do you know which products to choose?
  • How do you tell if a product is a good affiliate seller before you start to promote it?
  • How do you become an affiliate marketer without a list?
  • Should you be selling affiliate products relevant to your existing business?

And if that’s not enough, Tim has some additional (and unrelated) questions that include:

  • In WordPress, what’s the difference between a category and tag?
  • Should every Internet marketer have a blog?
  • What are the different ways one can approach the selling of a set of video tutorials?

Quote of the show – “If you’re finding it hard to talk about it, then we’ll just stop!” – Tim to James.

Links & Resources mentioned in Freedom Ocean 8:

Traffic Grab – Systematic traffic grabbing strategies (James’s newest release).

Marketing Swipe – Your little helper in creating engaging content.

Fast Web Formula 3 – A live event in October 2011.

All Freedom Ocean products to help you become a better Internet Marketer can be found here.
(Duration 69 minutes – 63 MB)
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Tim: James Schramko, welcome back to the delightful Freedom Ocean!

James: Well, thanks Tim!

Tim: And here I am, I’m lying on the floor of your lab and I’m looking at your screensaver, and it happens to be the ocean. Where is that?

James: That was actually taken from the beach that I lived at.

Tim: Clearly. (Laughter)

James: Yeah. Well, the beach that I lived on. That was one of my lifetime goals was to live at the beach.

Tim: Oh, there it is.

James: There it is.

Tim: There it is. We might have to take a screenshot of that and get it up on the fan page. Hey James, we should welcome our listeners back to the Freedom Ocean which is getting some momentum and the swell is building.

James: Quite incredible, really.

Tim: Yup.

James: (Laughter) We just looked today our iTunes things and the individual episodes are actually ranking well now.

Tim: I reckon well. And listeners, we are going to try and be upbeat here but James and I and the family have just been at for big meal at the local tavern so, and it is like it not now, and it’s possible I’m beat on. James is just speaking and I’m just sort of hitting the– I should be in [big] by now talk mood but that’s it. I’m pretty excited because we got a favorite to cover in this episode. So without further ado, what I do want to say is if you are new to the show, actually, important, really important because this is a show about Internet marketing where I am the guy with the million questions. You got the million bucks. And this show is not sequential but it would be with going back to the early episodes. We’ve covered a fair bit.

James: We have. We’re actually– we’re really cramming a lot of information in. I think I also want to thank the [radios] for telling us what it is they’re enjoying about it and one of the things that comes up a lot is that just no filler, no fluff.

Tim: No.

James: We’re going straight for the jugular.

Tim: Straight for the jugular, and so, yeah, it is worth– if you are just starting to listen to the Ocean now, go back and have a listen to what has been covered. And in fact, sign-up at freedomocean.com and you’ll get the transcripts of every single episode we’ve done so far which is pretty useful on being told by some of our listeners. And James, I’ve got a million questions mate. There is many, many things bothering me, leaving me with no answers with regards to Internet marketing. So I’ve got a few and then we are going to spend the majority of the show talking about another business model.

James: Let’s reap in the wind!

Tim: Which is affiliate marketing.

James: Whoah!

Tim: Hey, you like that one.

James: That was really the first one that was–

Tim: Close to your heart.

James: – was my first model.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. You got a glint in the eye. You okay?

James: Yeah.

Tim: All right. If you don’t– if you find it hard to talk about it, we just stop, okay?

James: I think you’ll find it hard to stop me talking about that, okay?

Tim: (Laughter) Well, listen, I’m going to ask you some random questions, things that have been bothering me. I’ve been keeping a list of questions before Freedom Ocean ever came about. I’m just keeping a list of questions around Internet marketing. Now, here we go. I’ll start with simple one. What’s the difference between tags and categories when you’re uploading a post in your WordPress site?

James: Okay. Well, a category is like a filing cabinet which draw does this post or belong into. So it’s pretty much, in the case of our blog for example, freedomocean.com, when we put a podcast out, we label it “Podcast.” That is the category that it lives in. And if you– when the search engine looks at the website, it actually follows the bunch of posts that it categorized as the same category will appear as if they’re in one place like a filing cabinet.

Now the tag is what you would put when you’re inside that filing cabinet draw. It’s actually what you would label the photo with or label the post with. If you had to describe the post in five or six phrases, and you had a dyno machine, what would you talk into that dyno machine and stick on that post?

Tim: So what’s Google love more?

James: Well, Google likes all of those.

Tim: Okay, categories over tags or tags over categories. For some reason, I though tags where more about SEO.

James: Well tags helps Google understand what your post is about. And best practice now is to make sure that when you setup your site structure that you allow Google to crawl your tags so that it can see all of the tags you’ve listed.

Tim: So how would you do that?

James: You actually, you just got to make sure that when you log into your settings inside WordPress–

Tim: Yeah.

James: I’m getting bit technical here.

Tim: Yeah.

James: But you want to allow– you want to allow Google to follow the links to your tags. And I use a special WordPress theme called “Thesis.” And it’s actually inside the “Thesis” settings and the default setting is to have it “No follow.” So you actually have to take that setting off, and that will instantly show more of your website to Google. So that’s a good little customization.

Tim: Why would it automatically go to “don’t follow?”

James: I think the thinking behind that is that people felt that by not letting Google follow is that it would build up power on to the post themselves and stop it leaking into the tag.

Tim: Okay.

James: The little tags section of the website, and that might have made sense from one point of view but its better that Google actually finds them and follows them and pairs them up.

Tim: Just on that, you mention “Thesis.” It’s certainly a thing that gets talked about. I mean for those who don’t know what we’re talking about in regards to a theme, it’s basically you install WordPress which is the content management system for your site and then the theme actually look beautiful.

James: Yup.

Tim: Well, gives it a structure.

James: Yeah. Well the theme is sort of like the skin or the outer layer.

Tim: Skin, yeah.

James: Yup.

Tim: And “Thesis” is one of those ones that’s right up there in terms of best practice?

James: I think it’s good best practice for an all around the site and that is because it’s nice and clean and fast loading and well-optimized for search engines, pretty much the out of the box.

Tim: Out of the box.

James: And a good design will be able to work with “thesis” and make it look like any, so to say.

Tim: Okay, okay. So just getting back to tags and categories, is there a sort of optimum number of tags that you should have for each post? And is it just post and pages for tags?

James: I believe just posts.

Tim: Yes, okay.

James: Most people are using websites for updated news like the traditional blogging style will be using posts.

Tim: Okay.

James: Pages are good for things that don’t change. But in our case, say Freedom Ocean is a great example. We’ve got a couple of pages like the “About Us” or the “Products” page and then we have posts which are dynamically keep updating. New podcast, we update the post. I like to have about five or six tags per post.

Tim: How many categories per post?

James: I have between one and three.

Tim: Okay. All right, good one. Next question. And I love the fact– (laughter)– I have some questions here that I have under the heading, too embarrassed to ask after conversation we have last week.

James: (Laughter) You should ask those ones.

Tim: I know. I’m just putting up the courage.

James: (Laughter)

Tim: These are ones that I figure most people have got and then I’ve got these series of questions that– because people are– I’m learning. I’m still learning whilst I’ve got– I’m well and truly in the ocean. There’s lots to learn so there are these some questions there that, yeah, I’ll just have to build up the courage, take a big, deep breath. Okay, another one, should everyone who is entering Internet marketing have a blog?

James: I think everyone should reserve their own property and that would be at a minimum, it would be ideal to have their own name as a (dot)com website. And even if they don’t put a lot of stuff on it or put nothing on it, it’s good for ownership because I think (dot)com is still king and I think down the track, if you let somebody else take control of that, you can’t control it. They do. And it could– the more powerful you become, the more authority you get, the more it’s going to cost you to buy it back.

Tim: Okay. What if you can’t get your own name (dot)com?

James: Try and get a similar version with a middle initial or shortened nickname of your first name, just try and get something similar.

Tim: Is it okay to then, if you can’t get say, timreid.com, what about therealtimreid.com, or thisistimreid.com? Is it okay to have those?

James: Yeah, you can.

Tim: Words upfront.

James: We call it a modifier.

Tim: A modifier.

James: You put a modifier.

Tim: It modifies– okay.

James: Yup. “timreidsblog,” or yup, “therealtimreid.” Luckily, I have reasonably unique name. There is one other person with my name. Poor guy. He doesn’t have much of a chance on the Internet. Good day to James, if you’re listening.

Tim: Yeah, hello James!

James: And yeah, you want to get in there first if possible. Maybe consider find out who has got your (dot)com and see if you can get it from him. If they’re not famous, you might have a chance.

Tim: Yeah. Okay. So that’s sort of answering the question should every Internet marketer have a blog, but what you’re saying is well first of all, reserve your name as a (dot)com and then do what? Sit on it or actually start to create content?

James: Really comes down to what are you trying to do. I think that most people should have a website on their own demand. If they’re planning to be an authority, if they’re planning to be somebody who would be speaking, if they would be producing ideas in the market place, if they want to control their own persona, that the best place to do that from is their own (dot)com site.

Tim: Okay. And then what about having a blog around the particular topic? So if you’re an Internet marketer who specialized in a particular industry or particular model, should you then have a blog around that?

James: Definitely! And you would make it something you could sell one day because you’re unlikely to sell your own name (dot)com to anyone other than someone with your own name. Yeah.

Tim: Yeah.

James: In your case, that’s okay. I think you’d be able to get good money for timreid.com site.

Tim: Oh that’s very kind.

James: However–

Tim: Do you want to buy one? I’ve got one. (Laughter)

James: Do you? Well if the price is right.

Tim: Okay.

James: Sure.

Tim: All right.

James: Because then you could buy it back for me after selling your name.

Tim: Should we do a role play that goes the ocean.

James: Yes. (Laughter) You put that picture of you with the donkey.

Tim: Oh, stop it. It was one donkey.

James: (Laughter)

Tim: (Laughter)

James: That was light. So the thing is that’s a great example of why you don’t want to let that get out of your control. You want to control your own space. So when people look for me online, my own website is going to come up first or second or both, and then you’re going to start seeing sites like Facebook coming up with your own name on it.

Tim: Hm-mm.

James: That’s the other thing. You really want to make sure you own all of the major social media places for your own name. So if I was doing a laundry list for somebody who’s perhaps, maybe they’re small business and I haven’t really thought about it much, they should own either for their business of for themselves or both, YouTube, Facebook, and their own (dot)com, and perhaps Twitter, sort of a baseline, and LinkedIn would be another one to go incline.

Tim: And ideally, exactly the same vanity URL for each? [The site handle]?

James: Ideally the same, yes, consistent across the board.

Tim: Okay. All right, good advice. Now my next question before we leap into the word of affiliate marketing is one– is something that I need to do pretty much immediately, or in a two day marketing workshop for small businesses late last year, and the video set is now ready. So I’ve got a video of every single presentation unit that was made during those two days across the broad variety of online and offline subject matter for small business owners. Each presentation unit has the slides, full screen, me in the corner presenting, toggling between the two, some really good quality information there. I am about to run another two-day course in the coming three months. The question is, what should I do with that set of– well, it’s not DVDs yet, they’re just electronic files. What should I do with them to get maximum bang?

James: You have to define maximum bang.

Tim: Okay.

James: Because it’s–

Tim: Well.

James: It could be more of a case of what can you do with them?

Tim: Let’s talk what could I do with them?

James: Yup.

Tim: Before we worry of that because meant by maximum bang, I mean I could put a high price on them or which I don’t really want to do. I’d rather really get them at to as many people as possible.

James: Right. So it comes back to the strategy. What are you trying to do? Are you trying to make lots of money now? Are you trying to build trust and relationships that could have us later on? Are you trying to get famous in marketing exposure, put a name for yourself? Are you trying to credentialize yourself as a published author? And there are so many things you can do with the content.

Tim: I’d like to get some decent penetration into the small business market and make a decent coin along the way.

James: Okay. So in that case, there are a few things. Let’s talk about some of the things you can do with that content. Firstly, is it evergreen content, and by evergreen I mean stuff that weren’t date quickly, or is it time sensitive?

Tim: It’s evergreen.

James: Okay. Well that’s good. It gives you more options and it means that you can be more strategic about what you do. You could take– well firstly I think you should multimedia them in, and by that, I mean have them all transcribed. That way, once you have the PDF version, you could actually create a– you could actually publish them to Amazon. You could have them turn into a print book if it’s that good with a little bit of editing. More likely, you could, at the minimum, setup a little website and turn those streaming videos into a membership area which you could then either give away, sell for a low price, sell for a medium price, or cut into time sequential modules and release them on a drip fade into a membership. Or you could put them on to a disc or discs and you could sell the discs, you could sell the electronic version online with a disc upsell. You could sell the discs with an electronic down sell.

Tim: I knew where this is going.

James: And you could also use the disc as a giveaway, perhaps you could give away the first free as a lead generator for people who want to come to a workshop. You say look, when you pay one– pay shipping and I’ll send this disc out to you for free, or you could say pay a dollar and I’ll send this disc, or I will just send this disc out you to for no charge and then you pass that customer’s details to your telesales operator who cold calls those people to get them to come on to your live event. There’s so many ways you can use that content. It’s ridiculous.

Tim: It is.

James: And then when we’re talking about using them for awareness and traffic, you should have them chopped into a little tiny pieces, sub ten minute pieces and put all out to your branded YouTube channel.

Tim: Uhum.

James: You can make lots and lots of videos out of the cost of that size, and just too completely cover the market. You could create a fan page for that product brand, the workshop name and you could put those little YouTube videos up to your fan page everyday for a month and just take over.

Tim: So here comes that overwhelm with back again because there is– I mean those options are just no shortage, and my– yeah, that’s [good] way to start because that becomes– back to what we’ve–

James: Well, what would we say in the overwhelm session in one of the previous podcast. What was the answer?

Tim: Now you’re testing me, it is live at night. You tell me.

James: Start with one thing

Tim: Start– yeah, start with one thing.

James: I think the most obvious thing would be to either put them to a memory stick and sell the memory stick at a very reasonable price to build credit points with your clients or to put them as a streaming membership video–

Tim: Yup.

James: – portal and just let people pay once and give them access to the whole lot.

Tim: Hmm. Of the existing, because the side that this workshop hang off was smallbusinessbigmarketing.com and is it just to hanging off that or create a unique site whether leave that you link to from Small Business, Big Marketing?

James: How much effort do you want to put into it? How much ownership do you want for it, and what’s your agreement with your partner?

Tim: Yep.

James: All those are considerations.

Tim: Yeah, okay, okay. So Internet marketing is not as easy as everyone thinks.

James: Well I don’t think I ever said it’s easy.

Tim: No, that you haven’t.

James: (Laughter)

Tim: Many of us including me [quote] it was, good answers to good questions. Now let’s talk affiliate. Let’s talk affiliate. When we send at– when we send at requests for questions, we have a lot of questions come back around affiliate marketing which I will share over the course of this show. However why don’t you define affiliate marketing because there’s two sides of the affiliate coin. What are they?

James: Well one side is as a traffic strategy for you and the other side is where it’s a income producing strategy for someone who wants to pursue affiliate marketing. So let’s say what it is? Affiliate marketing means you’re a sales person getting a commission. So in other words, you can sell somebody else’s things and they will pay you commission. So you as the membership site owner with your course online, you could have affiliates who sell that for commission. So you’ve effective outsourced a part of your marketing budget to it. Army of online affiliates who will go out and make referrals to your site and when somebody buys from your site, you will send them a commission so that’s how you do it as a traffic strategy. Now, of course there’s affiliates that’s doing it for income. Their goal is to bring people to your site so that you will pay them commission if somebody buys.

Tim: Hmm. Okay. So they’re the two sides. What side are we going to talk about first?

James: I think we’re going to spend most of the time talking about how you would go out and sell other people’s stuff for commission.

Tim: Commission only sales person.

James: Commission only sales person and the reason we are going to cover that is this is one of the easiest things you can do online.

Tim: Yup.

James: You can be in business within minutes. There’s really no cost to entering into an affiliate program and it’s just a matter of how well you can target customers and drive traffic to the offer. So there are a few elements involved with affiliate marketing. I guess we’ll probably going to cover a range of them.

Tim: Yup.

James: But the most obvious ones are that I get asked, “How does one become an affiliate?” What’s actually involved? It’s simply a case of either identifying a target group of customers and then going and finding products or services that you can offer them or find the products and services and then go and get the customers and bring them to that target product or service. And it could work either way, it doesn’t really matter and once you’ve identified the product or the service, you join the affiliate program. Now generally, have terms and conditions which will say you mustn’t talk badly about our brand. You mustn’t be filthy, dirty spammer and email 10 million messages to people unsolicited, or lots of stuff or the obvious things. And you must never reap us off or pretend that you’ve done all this but you haven’t, that sort of unethical and legal acclimates. A lot of the programs that people promote are handled through a few major channels. One is you deal directly with the company with the product or service you’re selling so that’s like a direct affiliate program. The positives for that that you can build a really good relationship and they’ll caught off in customizing just for you like putting tracking codes that you can see what traffic of yours is converting. The negative is you may not get paid because there’s not really much leverage for you.

Tim: Uhum.

James: The other type of affiliate channel would generally be dealing with an affiliate network. A big affiliate network is going to have multiple people with products and services that you can choose from and you’re more likely to get paid. The downside is you have a lot more competition generally because so many people are attracted to it. They are– they’re wise marketing to getting your affiliates and you also have less customization about with the end user. And you have no control over things like refunds or whatever. Generally, the bigger networks especially clickbank.com will just refund without question if somebody ask for refund and some people are aware of that policy and they exploit it to the full extent. The other thing is it’s very hard to protect yourself from affiliate theft of affiliate hijacking. That’s where you might send somebody to buy a product. They realize that it is through a particular network and they go and join up that network and then buy from themselves–

Tim: Yeah.

James: – and chop you out of the loop. Say you’ve done all the hard work but you didn’t get rewarded for it.

Tim: Can we just go back to– you talked about the one to one affiliate where you find a good product and scroll down at the bottom of the page and there’s the opportunity to join their affiliate program, where is the risk of not getting paid there?

James: Well, the risk is you might sell their products–

Tim: Yep.

James: – and they collect the money and they deliver the product but they may not pay you as an affiliate.

Tim: So it’s an honesty system.

James: Well, it’s not just honesty, it could be that they really crop it running their business and they can afford to pay you. I’ve had companies that have literally gone out of business owing me money where I’ve driven so much traffic to them that they couldn’t handle the orders–

Tim: You put them out of business.

James: I put them out of business. (Laughter)

Tim: (Laughter)

James: Well, it happens.

Tim: Yeah.

James: So they weren’t very good at running their business–

Tim: Okay, so–

James: – because they had no controls on those gullibility in place and like to put this in perspective, they were used to getting dozen orders a day and I switched on my traffic campaign and I started making 85 sales a day of a physical product and they literally couldn’t produce it fast enough and the customers complained, ended up refunding, so my commission went down the tube. And then they went bust.

Tim: And what’s that [doofy] old list to? Because you’re the one– we have to promote it.

James: In my case, I wasn’t building a list so I never had a relationship with the end customer.

Tim: Okay.

James: It’s a good point though.

Tim: Yeah.

James: I was using a technique called direct linking and that is where I actually– I literally took the traffic. I bought the traffic and pointed it straight to that affiliate program link and the customer dealt directly to that company. I never got to meet the customer.

Tim: How did you buy the traffic through Google AdWords?

James: I bought it through about 27 different traffic channels.

Tim: Okay, okay.

James: You have to look at traffic grab to find out more which is on our product’s page but I’ve become someone of a traffic specialist because what happens is when I find and offer that converts which is one of the key points. If you can actually buy traffic for a dollar and earn $2 for that traffic–

Tim: You’d buy it all the time.

James: – you want to go and get more traffic.

Tim: Yep.

James: So in some cases, you’d run out of traffic with a particular topic source so you got to go and find more traffic sources.

Tim: Well traffic grab will certainly address that.

James: Yeah. You’ve got plenty of options there.

Tim: Okay. So then we’ve got– that’s the wonder one. Then we go to these like Commission Junction and ClickBank. Now my limited experience with those two sites particularly ClickBank is like go into them. And I’ve done a little bit of building sites around particular keywords and I’ve gone in there to find products that are relevant to sell them both sides. And I just cringed when I see the sales pages and in fact, I’ve had very limited sales success from them because I look at those pages and I go would I buy from them? Not in a million years. I find a lot of the sites that I’ve come across a little, product sites that I have come across on ClickBank, also seem very old, very outdated, it doesn’t seem to be a lot of, out of that what I’d call kind of modern or contemporary product there. Am I missing something?

James: Yes. I think there’s a few factors going on here.

Tim: Okay.

James: One is it’s not about you. You’re way biased.

Tim: [Expletive]

James: You’ve got a career in design and advertising so you’re completely ineligible to have an opinion about it. Secondly, you’ve got to make a value call here. Is the product that you’re promoting something that you’d be happy for your wife or your grandma to go along and buy? Because if it’s not, you shouldn’t be promoting anyway. So regardless of even if it’s not perfect for you, is it prefect for the target audience?

Tim: Uhum.

James: So that’s really what it’s all about. And you know what, it will come back to the same thing that drives Google and everything else, relevancy. So if that product on ClickBank, even if it’s garish and screaming and whatever, is suited for the correct audience and you happen to be able to find that audience and it solves a problem for them, and it’s a genuine product and you feel good about it, that it doesn’t really matter if you like it or not. If it works, it works. I will say though, that I believe, it’s only my opinion, but many of those products are completely made up, fraud products that should not be in the market. So I actually, as a personal thing, my policy is I do not promote Internet marketing or get rich products on the ClickBank marketplace. I just don’t do that for two reasons. One is most of them are not good products which is the main reason. And the second reason is that even if you were to find a good product, people in the Internet marketing space is so savvy that they buy through their own link and then they refund it just to double whammy the seller. The only person making money is the seller.

Tim: Yeah, okay.

James: And the other– there’s a third reason, the competition is unbelievable and I’ll give you an example. Some of the very top ClickBank products convert on the half a percent. So firstly, you have to drive a lot of traffic to make a sale. Secondly, you are competing with people that were taking out media buzz for a $100,000 to test the offers that convert until they get the winning test and once they find the winning results, then they drive $15,000 to $25,000 a days worth of traffic to those offers. So how are you going to compete with that with your little five a blog for that cost to–

Tim: Oh yeah.

James: – five bucks. It is not going to happen and you’re dreams will be shattered.

Tim: So anyone thinking of doing affiliate marketing at this point is going well, I think I’m going to look for another business model. So where is the upside for someone who just wants to come along and earn a few bucks from affiliate marketing?

James: The upside is just listen to listen to my advice is that the reason most people start selling get rich products on ClickBank is that’s how I get sucked in the first place, and secondly, that is what most affiliate marketing training programs teach you how to sell because it’s sop easy to become an affiliate there and something that everyone can relate to.

Tim: Hmm.

James: So I don’t have any personal against ClickBank. I even have products for sale on ClickBank but they’re not in the IM make money market. I’m best friends with the guy who’s in the Top 100 ClickBank sellers and affiliates. He’s a super affiliate. And he’s got impeccable integrity but he’s got products outside the make money market. So the platform is fine. There are people making a decent amount of commission from it but I believe the majority of the screenshots that are out there of people’s income are just purely fake. It takes one line of Java script code–

Tim: Yeah, it does.

James: – in the browser to change it to whatever number you want.

Tim: Yup.

James: So it’s very disappointing. So if you do want to make money as an affiliate, my advice would be don’t promote make money products on ClickBank. I think you’re going to get craned. You better to go direct to–

Tim: Can I just say this stuff–

James: Yup.

Tim: – I was promoting wasn’t around making money. If the two areas that I covered was teenage acne.

James: Yup

Tim: And there was a lot of product there on teenage acne.

James: Plenty, plenty.

Tim: But still didn’t find anything that–

James: Well they don’t convert very well, some of them, and obviously you probably got a few things that need filling in with regards to the way you’ve approached the affiliate–

Tim: Correct, yup.

James: – which is the other side. So even if you’re doing quite well, you might not get better than 5% conversions.

Tim: Yup.

James: So I just had a look at some of my affiliate stats today and I could say that it‘s promoting, converting at about 5%. And I’ve driven 10,000 to 11,000 visits to this offer at 5% conversions and generate $22,000 in commission. So I’m making $2 per visit. So how much do I need to pay per visit to that website?

Tim: Don’t ask me to do math at this time of night.

James: Less than $2 is the answer.

Tim: Correct.

James: Less than $2.

Tim: Yup.

James: So if I can traffic for less than $2, then I will make a profit. So the key to it is to find a program or a product or service that is valuable, that actually does what it says, that pays you on time, and not only pays you on the first sale, there’s many programs that will pay you on future sales and up sales and cross sales and recurring sales. There’s a huge tip there. I would work on finding recurring commission products to promote and when you find those products and you do correct marketing around those products, then you can find that affiliate marketing is actually quite easy.

Tim: All right. I noticed when we’ve got one– on their product’s page freedomocean.com, you have got a product there which is “10 Steps to Accelerate Affiliate Sales” which is a free download.

James: Yes.

Tim: And I think it would be really interesting to just kind of touch on those steps now to give us a sense of what could be then. We’ve covered the bad news in affiliate marketing.

James: Yeah.

Tim: And so what’s the good news? If I will go to–

James: Well, yeah. We don’t want to ruin our reputation here.
Tim: No, that’s right. Tell them how it is.

James: I’ve made some outrageous claims already on this podcast series. I’ve talked about the US gurus going off a little bit.

Tim: Yup.

James: I’ve talked about which products you very unlikely to make money from. I say what can you do well? Okay, the product you’re referring today is called affiliate accelerate. And what I did with that– and by the way it’s free. So people shouldn’t be shocked when they find that’s free. They should just celebrate that. What I did is I took one of my popular business models, these two main affiliate models that I like, actually these three. Should we cover the main three affiliate models?

Tim: Yeah.

James: And then we’ll drew down. The first one is “Evergreen.” That means that we find products that will sell all day, everyday, forever. And today, I got a commission from a company that sells a products that everyone on earth has, that they pay on a monthly or yearly subscription, and they’d absolutely made in their business. Remember open that check?

Tim: Uhum.

James: And that check more than paid for dinner.

Tim: Uhum.

James: And that is just one of the many accounts I have for that particular company. So there’s lots and lots of products out there that sell things that people need that just go on and on and on. And I’m talking about things like utilities, and anything with the pain of disconnect, and I know we covered these before. anything that it’s an inconvenience if you don’t have anymore such as website hosting. And it’s a very obvious one. People want their website up. They’re going to continue to have their website up. Find a web hosting affiliate program that pays you every time the customer renews their hosting. That’s very obvious.

Okay, the second type of business model is the “Affiliate Pounce model.” And affiliate pounce is when we know there’s something brand new hitting the market, bright, shiny objects.

Tim: Yup.

James: What the people do when new products come out? They go into a frenzy. And that’s because the coordinated efforts of the boy’s club push the market and hike them up and bombard inboxes and take mind control in the market at that time and direct attention on to that product. So as affiliates, all we need to do is turn up, position ourselves right in the front of the market and make sure that people buy throughout affiliate link. And I’ve had extreme examples of that where I’ve made up to, well, I’ve made six figures from one of those launches, so that’s pretty good result.

Tim: How do you position yourself in front though?

James: Well, you use a combination of strategies.

Tim: Okay.

James: I’ve got a whole product around that.

Tim: Yup.

James: About the affiliate pounce method and I actually created the entire product. I’ve been using this method for 5 years and I didn’t publish the product. I decided not to publish product because I was making $5 to $10,000 per month with this strategy. I could see that a lot of people had parts of the puzzle. In fact, I trained most of the people who are using this strategy two years ago. Most of them got my very first product which is not available for sale anymore. It was called “Super Fast Affiliate” and there’s a handful of people that got that and within a year, they came out with their own products. So I thought I’m not going to keep refine and innovating that. I probably will release the product at some point but it has a lot of data and results that I learned from doing it myself that were too valuable too sell. It really was one of those cases where I argued with myself, why would I actually take some on this, so I didn’t. But most people say that on their sales letter. I nearly didn’t teach you this

Tim: Yeah, yeah. (Laughter) But you didn’t.

James: (Laughter) But in this case, I haven’t released the product.

Tim: Yeah.

James: It still works really well. It’s making plenty of people money. The third model is an extension of that if you like. It can work with the “evergreen” or “the pounce” and it’s called “Buy With Bonus.” And “Buy With Bonus” is very simple. It’s– okay, here‘s the product I recommend and here is my bonus if you buy it from me.

Tim: So it’s a point of difference between you and all the other people selling that product.

James: Yes, because most people aren’t going to offer bonus. That’s just too much effort. And it is that point if you only have to be the host to win the race by a nose, you have a bonus, no one else has a bonus, you will get the sale. If everyone else has a bonus but you have a better bonus, you
will get the sale. So the “Buy With Bonus” strategy is something I’ve been fine tuning for years as well, and that’s what affiliate accelerate covers. I just took some of the key points on how you would set that up and I put into some basic slides and I’m talking very basic.

Tim: It’s great.

James: That little PDF, it’s just a sort quick intro to that model and it’s a got a little description of each step. So we go through some of the steps.

Tim: Absolutely, we should.

James: One of the steps is finding the offer. Finding what you actually want to sell and making sure there’s demand for it and making sure that other people are selling something like that or have sold something like it, or they’re about to on the– if it’s a pounce. And then you check the sales page and make sure you trust it. Is it screaming red? Does it have a phone number on it which is deadly for an affiliate? If someone picks up the phone and calls and places the order when you get the credit for–

Tim: Yes.

James: – these are the things that we can’t be sure about. So in some cases, you will, I should point out, but we just got to check. Or does the page ask for somebody’s details and have a very low conversion. So you can’t be sending too much traffic to a page where you get no result. So you might want to, want to just have a look and check that the offer is good. Also, just do some research and see if they actually pay you or if it got a bad reputation. I like to go and see what consumers say. I’ve been offered to sell products. And then I’ve gone and done some research and found that they’re been scamming people so I’m like, “Hey, listen. Thanks very much for the offer. But I’m not interested in promoting that product.”

Tim: Make a lot of sense as the– as a potential affiliate to go and buy the product and have a good look at it.

James: Yeah. And in most cases, it’s possible, and not all cases.

Tim: Yeah.

James: And I’ve got a great example of that in one of our previous podcast.

Tim: Yeah, yeah.

James: It’s not possible to test everything. But these days, for my best customer list, there’s no way I’m going to recommend any anything that I haven’t tested myself. I literally sit down and go through, and I did this yesterday, I went through an hour and a half videos. I got a whole membership. I went through an hour and a half with the video to watch to make sure that the information was good and I found the information was not good. And I would not promote the product. So I just send polite email back, “Thank you very much. It’s not right for my customers.” If they’re to ask me why it’s not right, I’d say, “Well, you’re teaching an outdated model that creates no value for customers and is reaping people off in my humble opinion.” But I didn’t. I just decided to–

Tim: Yup.

James: Let’s just go quietly. So once you found the thing. You join the affiliate program and you get your affiliate link. And that’s simply just the link. It’s like a website link and sometimes, it has little tricky bits of code like TID=174xy, it could be quite long and I recommend that you either shorten the link using a shortener and people are welcome to use my shortener if they want but it’s like tiny URL. It’s LNX2.co. It’s very short and if you want to go the whole hog, I actually go and buy domain name dedicated just for that program.

Tim: Okay.

James: So– and how much the domain name? It’s $9 to $10.

Tim: Yup.

James: My goal is to make more than $9 or $10 affiliate commission on that campaign. And if I can do that, it was worth buying and dedicate it to my–

Tim: So just explain that. You’re going to dedicate domain name for this product.

James: For the affiliate link.

Tim: Okay.

James: That I will send traffic to.

Tim: Okay. So give me an example of or [make one up] for market.

James: Well, let’s say you’ve got your membership site.

Tim: Yup.

James: You’ve got your training videos.

Tim: Yup.

James: And you call it Timbo’s Training.

Tim: Yup.

James: And I go and get my affiliate link and it says timbostraining?=17456. I might go and register domain that says–

Tim: Get, gettimbo–

James: – smallbusinesstraining.com

Tim: Okay, I agree. It’s immediate lead to that.

James: Lead us immediately to Timbo’s Training.

Tim: Yup.

James: So I would now go, “Hey everyone! Found this fantastic training thing. I’ve watched the videos myself. I know the guy. He’s good. His information is helpful. He’s got a lot of testimonials and I’ve got a link for you to go and check out this thing. By the way, if you do pick up the course, let me know, and I’d love to give you free chapter from my up and coming membership site that I haven’t released to the public yet. And I’d say, “You click on blah, blah, blah.” That’s important these days that in your email or on your website you’ve got a little note that says I might make commission if you click on links. If you’re known as a super affiliate people, they’re going to know that it’s an affiliate link and in my most cases, you can put a disclosure. Sometimes you can, maybe Twitter or Facebook, you can, so I actually for a bit of a joke on my Twitter profile, I said, “Any link on my page could make me money.”

Tim: (Laughter)

James: I’ve got a feedback on that.

Tim: Full disclosure.

James: Full disclosure and I’m upfront, I am an affiliate. I recommend products but I do it with integrity.

Tim: Well, and they will say too. I mean, well, there shouldn’t be anything wrong with it. And if you buy direct or you buy through the affiliate, you’re not paying anymore.

James: That’s right. And it should be obvious to people when you get a bonus, actually say, “If you buy it through me, I will get a commission, so I’d like to give you a bonus.” Now the only competition is really you, another affiliate, or the customer cheating you and try to join it themselves which does happens but if you’ve got a good relationship, then they will have checks and balances in place especially if I start sending someone traffic, they’re going to know about it because they’re going to be taking orders, a lot of orders like bang! bang! bang! bang! And then I get some guys join the affiliate program and bought it from himself, they going to go hang on it, hang on a second Freddie, and they’ll decline the sales purchase.

Tim: So “Buy With Bonus,” the idea is to go and register domain name that looks a lot neater than the affiliate link that you’re going to get–

James: Yeah.

Tim: – from the product label. You’ve then got to go and create a one page site.

James: You don’t have to. No.

Tim: Well, how do they claim the bonus?

James: Well, you just got to tell them how they claim the bonus. So we go to the next step.

Tim: Okay.

James: The next step is to make the bonus. So we know we’re promoting now, we’re promoting Tim’s training. So we got to think, what’s a good bonus for people who get that and I like to think of something that’s complementary to that product, something that will enhance it, magnify it, make it better, extend it, they’re the missing chapter, the cheek, chick notes. “I sat through all of Tim’s workshop and it was awesome, but frankly, who’s got time to sit through three days with videos, so I’ve gone and made notes and I’ve got it turned into a beautiful report that’s just 17 pages long and it really cuts to the chase, and I want to give it to you when you get Tim’s training.”
So what happens is sometimes the bonus is more valuable than the product, and that’s okay because alter, we’re going to sell that as its own product.

Tim: Okay.

James: In many cases, and that’s exactly what I did. You know that your bonus is good when people email you and say, “Hey, I saw you offer. I don’t really want Tim’s training but I’d love to buy Tim [cheek, shape] notes,” that’s when you known you’ve got a good bonus.

Tim: Yeah, okay.

James: So what sort of things can you do? You can do PDFs. You can do coaching. You can do giveaway websites. You can offer to create video for them. Anything you can think of, it’s like there’s no rule to this. And audio, you can give them a membership to something. It doesn’t have to be yours, like you can send them an iPod if you want. So I’ve seen all sorts of things. The thing that I really don’t like and I think is a big tarnish on the industry is cash rebates. That’s just pointless.

Tim: Hmm.

James: It’s pointless rebating your commission to the customer because you’re lowering the value of the product they’re borrowing. You’re creating a price-driven market that is simply just removing the value from the market.

Tim: You’re not helping anyone.

James: You’re not helping anyone. And guess what sort of customer you attract? The worst dead beat cheapskate. There’s one thing I hate among anything. It’s–

Tim: Dead beat cheapskate?

James: Dead beat cheapskate, price-oriented, pain in the a** customers.

Tim: Hello to all dead beat cheapskates! (Laughter)

James: Hello to all of you.

Tim: To all of you out there. I don’t reckon they’re listening to Freedom Ocean.

James: Yup. Don’t bother buying my products.

Tim: I do not reckon they’re out there for us.

James: No, they’re not there for us because they appreciate value. I’m talking about people who are always looking for that deal in the bargain. They’ll always be poor, generally, because they don’t recognize investment, the value of investment. So what I like to do is create a product that is actually really valuable and makes the experience better for them because it gives these two things. It gives us a qualified list of amazing buyers because we know they’ve got money. They’ve just bought something. We know what they bought so we actually know what they like and now our job is to out relationship the person that actually sold them the product which is easy to do.

Tim: Uhum

James: We want to build a better relationship than the product they just bought. And I used to do this when I sold cars. I used to have a better relationship with people who didn’t buy from me than the guy who bought the car from. So if you came in to buy car for me and you ended up buying the wrong car because someone told you something wrong, whatever, I’ll actually follow you up still and the person you bought the car from me, I’ve never hear from them and next time you wanted to change cars, you’d come in and look. So the next thing you want to do is to put up a website or start your campaign. If you’re really serious about it, then you put up a website and it could be on a third party program. It could be a blogger or a Weebly, Squidoo, of Hubpages, or it should be on your own domain on your on website. That’s the pro way to go. If you’re going to do this seriously, set up a dedicated website just to deal with bonuses and that’s one of the ones I’ve done. I‘ve done three different ones. I’ve done it where I announced it from my blog. I’ve done it where I have a dedicated Buy With
Bonus website. And I’ve done it where I do a website for each product that I promote.

Tim: Could I just stop you there because what I’m– the point I’m missing is that let’s say you’ve identified a product to sell, you’re going to be an affiliate for them. And you’ve got a link where they take– you promote that link but on clicking it, it goes through to the site, the affiliate site.

James: Yup.

Tim: Right?

James: Yup.

Tim: So they buy– the whole transaction happens through the owner of that site, not through you.

James: Yup.

Tim: So how are you capturing– I know how they’re capturing the payment and they’re going to pay you, but how on earth are you going to know when they’ve purchased and how are you going to get them their bonus?

James: That’s why we put up our website.

Tim: Okay, so you’re–

James: And we drive traffic to our website.

Tim: Okay. So you have registered that unique domain and you have installed–

James: Or– we’re going to need two.

Tim: Okay.

James: One for the link and one for the website.

Tim: One for the website.

James: Yup

Tim: Yeah.

James: And the website is where we’re going to do our messaging. You don’t have to have a website. It’s an optional step. I could just send an email. I just send an email and say, “Hey, I recommend Timbo’s training and if you buy it, make sure you send me your receipt and I’ll send your bonus.

Tim: Right.

James: That simple. But that’s’ what we put on our website.

Tim: Yup.

James: We’ll say, “Looking for Timbo’s training? Don’t buy it until you check this out. Timbo’s training is great. I’ve sat through the whole thing. Took some nights. I felt there was probably a couple of things missing but that’s all right. I’ve got good experience on this so I’ve knocked together a 50-page report on what probably should have been the cost but isn’t. But when you buy it through me, you’ll get it anyway. So here’s what you do. Ste p 1. Click on the link below which opens in a new window to buy Timbo’s training. Step 2. Send your receipt to blah, blah, blah.” It could be Gmail desk, it could be your support desk– ideally it’s your support desk– and then say, “Look, if you’ve got an issues. You want to ask some questions, use the support details here.”

Tim: Okay. Gotcha!

James: So that’s actually quite simple model.

Tim: Yup, it is.

James: And the best thing is they’re going to send you the receipt. So now you say, “Great! Go here to get your product.” Your proof, or you could actually punch in there details into [enable to capture] and that will send them the confirm. It will say, “Confirm that you wish to receive the Timbo training bonus. If you do, click on the link below to confirm.

Tim: But what you’re aiming to do is capture their details?

James: Yes, I want to put them on a double OptIn customer list.

Tim: Yup, yup.

James: Now I have a list of people who are on Timbo’s training. They’ve paid you, how much, $200, and I’ve sent them a PDF bonus, and now I have their details and I know that they are qualified buyer.

Tim: Okay.

James: And now, later on, I’ll move them to my own products. So next time I ran across, say, “Hey, I’m running a course,” or “I’ve just released a new e-book,” or “I’ve got a podcast about such and such. I know that you went to Timbo’s training course, so you bought Timbo’s training course, and this is actually your [deal] is suited to you. It covers more or less the same things except that it’s now reformatted and we’ve blah, blah, blah, blah.” So you just move the relationship on. So I built my whole affiliate business in the beginning by doing the Buy With Bonus market and it started with one order and then two, and the five, and then ten, and I’ve got it up to over hundred orders a month for one product that was giving me a $100 commission.

Tim: I love the Buy With Bonus.

James: It’s a great model.

Tim: Yup.

James: Because you’re building a list of buyers and you don’t have to do the sale. You don’t have to do the sales copy. You don’t have to do the transaction. You don’t have to have a merchant account. You don’t have to have any of the stuff that you need as a product owner. And you still get the customer’s details. And I still do the Buy With Bonus model today, still live and kicking.

Tim: And for those listening James, so the thing you [work] were very good. I’m not going find an affiliate product that I love to sell but getting the website up and getting that form registered, and all that. How am I going to do that? Well, the answer is on our product’s page where there is the opportunity to get all that build for, I think it was $299.

James: $299. And you can get a website up and running within about a day.

Tim: Yup.

James: All you need to do is pick a domain name. And I suggest if you want to pursue this business model– if you’re listening to this thinking, “Oh my god, that is the business model for me,” then go and select a nice Buy With Bonus type domain that could be something like Love this product, love this thing, or highly recommended, just pick a generic domain that you can use for your master site, spend the $299, get a site up and start reviewing products. It’s really that simple. You create a page for how to claim your bonus. Buy through this– through the link on the offer page. Send your claim to this email address. It could be claims@lovethisproduct.

Tim: So just so I understand that, if you have a highlyrecommended.com–

James: Yup.

Tim: – which I’m sure is gone.

James: More likely it would be.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. That is your primary website where you are going to list more than, any number of affiliate products that you want to sell can all be sold off there.

James: Yeah, just create a new post per product or a new page per product. I actually do a new page perk product and then I post about it and link to the page and then you go do all of your marketing drive traffic to that page.

Tim: Yup, okay.

James: And you build a whole website, there’s review sites out there doing six figures a month with this particular business model and you can even do it without a bonus if you really want to just get started, just start reviewing products and then add our bonus.

Tim: So would your highly recommended website be around a particular theme?

James: Yeah. I’d go for an industry segment.

Tim: Yeah, so– yeah, okay.

James: So you could, like a very lucrative one is actually internet marketing. There are other ones. You cold be in finance-type markets. You could be in– but really get on, I mean the internet marketing market is rabid. These people were just buy like crazy. There’s a product out everyday. It’s confusing. It’s actually a good place to be a voice of reason.

Tim: Uhum. It sounds like Freedom Ocean.

James: It does sound like Freedom Ocean.

Tim: And now we don’t have an affiliate program on Freedom Ocean.

James: No, we don’t.

Tim: No. So next.

James: Well, that’s actually it. You just drive traffic.

Tim: Oh, okay. You have to–

James: Yeah, sit back and drive traffic to it.

Tim: Okay, traffic grab.

James: Traffic grab, that’s going to give you all you need. That’s what my team do everyday. We build affiliate websites and we put good content on them and we drive traffic to them.

Tim: Okay. So that your team– was that [tape] Steps to Accelerating Affiliate Sales?

James: Well the offer, the link, the bonus, the offer, the site, the claim, build a list to get traffic, and then re-market to that customer. That’s about nine. That’s got to be pretty good.

Tim: That’s enough. Yeah, absolutely! Absolutely! Well we did have some questions from listeners about affiliate marketing. So let’s cover them off and one of them was from Wayne Andrew who came through the email and he asks how can you tell if an affiliate product is a good seller before you start to promote?

James: Well, I like to just do some research. Sometimes, you can’t tell the product that I made $22,000 commission for was brand new but I knew it’s going to be good product because I was involved in the history of it. I had a relationship with the product seller for five years. I encouraged him to create the product and I soft launched it to my own customer base and I knew that I could make the product successful because he makes good products. Everything he’s done was of the high standards. So one of the indicators for me was previous work, excellent! Previous products, excellent!

Tim: But if you’re starting out, how do you– for someone who doesn’t have that inside, how do you find out. I mean the first thing you can do is contact the owner of the product and say look, I’m thinking of affiliating your product, are you willing to give me a copy of it? And they might go, well, some may go, “Yes–”

James: Well that’s not really the question is asking though. It’s not asking how do I get a free affiliate product. Its how do I tell if something’s going to sell?

Tim: No. It’s not asking for free but yeah, how is it going to sell, well, get your hands on the product.

James: Well, other than he’s going to be able to make an opinion on if it’s brand new. There’s no substitute or time in. you’re going to have to put in some time in.

Tim: Yup.

James: But I like set up the Google Alerts for your market. Set up the product names in the market. Go and look at the popular blog in the market. Get involved in the forum in the market. All of the things that are available for free on the traffic grab site. I teach market research for free. So you can’t miss that. It shows you how to go and see what is actually selling and how you can find out where the buzz is. But the exception of a new product is going to be when you’re doing the pounces but you have– what is the product create a play up before and how did that sell. And what was the feedback? That most, in most markets, there is a product reviews section and in the Internet marketing space, there are blogs like Internet marketing news watch where you can go and see what’s happening in the market. There’s [Java] notify where people can go and see what launches are coming and then there’s places like the warrior forum which– and exercise with caution. There’s a product review section. Go and have a look at the product review section and see if people complaining about the product or in the rare instance, people say this is the best product I’ve ever bought. If people say it’s the best product they’ve ever bought and you just got all these people saying “what’s good about it?” you’ve now got all the stuff you need to write your one page review of the product. Just say this is what’s good about it. This is what’s bad about it. This is why you should buy it from me. This is what I’m going to offer you if you do.

Tim: Uhum.

James: It’s actually– most people have done the work for you that in the most cases, the products that are out there being sold. I mean everyone is out there selling hosting, autoresponders, software, they just stock the no brainer things to sell, if you want to get your feet wet without too much risk.

Tim: Okay. Now [Mik Burion] from– he’s the fix it fellow. And he says, “My question ins this, I have a property maintenance business. I like the idea of selling as an affiliate. Should I be looking for products that relate to my business like power tools and paint? Also, do I need a site developed specifically to sell as an affiliate or can I plug something into any site to do this?” So we’ve pretty much covered the second part of that.

James: Well, let’s answer that.

Tim: Okay.

James: I think in his case, he could easily add pages to his existing business site saying the tools we use in our business. And it could literally say, “We like the Makita because it’s blah, blah, blah. We tried three of the others that were rubbish. They burned out in the first week. This one we’ve had for seven years or seven months and we give it a pretty hard time and it’s taking all the knocks, and if you want to get one like us, click on this link. And they put somewhere in his terms and conditions. We may make money if you click on link on our site. Well, that’s fine. Most people can cope that.

Tim: Uhum.

James: So I think yes, he could definitely integrate it with what he’s– he obviously knows about things. He knows what’s good or bad. He’s field testing it. He’s in eprfet6c position to be an authority with integrity on those products. I would– if I wanted to buy a drill, I’d love to buy one from a trade’s person who actually uses it. Not some kids sitting, little kids in his dorm room, trying to be an affiliate from a fake power tool site.

Tim: My guess is things like drills and paint might not have affiliate programs.

James: They’ll all have affiliate programs.

Tim: Why?!

James: Everything has an affiliate program.

Tim: Really? You’re telling me if I go to Mckeater drill site, you reckon that we got an affiliate program?

James: If they sell them on Amazon, they’ll be an affiliate program.

Tim: All right, all right. If there’s not an affiliate, is it worth contacting–

James: No.

Tim: – the manufacturing site?

James: Well, don’t bother going to that part. It’s just too much hard work but what you can do is you talk in to [McCarter] Drill affiliate–

Tim: Affiliate.

James: – and see what comes up.

Tim: I reckon affiliates one of the most misspelled words too, by the way.

James: Is it?

Tim: Two f’s, one l?

James: I don’t know how to spell it.

Tim: Exactly. (Laughter)

James: If there’s nothing to sell, why not create a [McCarter] power drill god. In fact if you were selling the most of the affiliate that would be a great thing and ten things every tradesman should know about drills that they don’t teach you at technical college.

Tim: At drill school.

James: Yeah.

Tim: Yeah, good point. Shay has come through on the email and she says, a good question here. This is one I must say does good coming up in one line. I still can’t understand how anyone can do affiliate marketing without list? How does one become a super affiliate? And she uses the example of hair dryers. I won’t go into detail but the she goes on to say, “So if I decided to do affiliate marketing for hair dryers, how do I go about it? Do you have to put a lot of work into it?” (Laughter) The answer is yes. The answer is–

James: Yeah. Yes, there will be work.

Tim: Yeah, there will be work.

James: We’re to going to [candy] up that one.

Tim: No. Let’s go–

James: How do you do it?

Tim: Let’s– there are number of questions here so maybe answer the first one. How does one go about becoming a super affiliate without a list or affiliate without a list?

James: That’s what I did. I started with nothing. I started with no customers at all. I put up a website and I put information about the product that I was recommending. And the people came to the site and bought from me and then they got my bonus and then I have a list. So you actually do it to build a list. You don’t need a list to be an affiliate. But you can build a list being an affiliate and if you use the Buy With Bonus method, you will build a list and they’ll be highly targeted. So just get the dryer, write about it, video it, YouTube to vid– all the traffic strategies talked about in traffic grab, make audios, submit– have an iTunes channel if you want. There’s probably a market for professional hairdressers or work at home moms who want to do haircutting as a second job.

Tim: Do a podcast.

James: Yeah, exactly. So that–

Tim: Podcast, right way to get a list. It really is.

James: You reckon?

Tim: Absolutely!

James: Well, that’s right. You can always build a list from scratch and you can–

Tim: Yup.

James: I built a list of over 500 people since yesterday morning for brand new product-

Tim: Yup.

James: – program that I’m doing that doesn’t exist yet. I just got to create it between now and Friday. (Laughter)

Tim: Yeah, okay. Oh, yeah.

James: It’s actually easy one you’ve got a foot in the door, building a list is really easy once you’ve got some momentum. So you’ve got to get in motion to get momentum which means you got ton do something.

Tim: Yup. I am– sort of related to this, I interviewed a fellow about a year and a half ago on Small Business, Big Marketing where he came up with the idea for an iPhone app around women’s hair, hairdos, so very basic and he didn’t have a list. He knew nothing about hair but the idea was if you keyed in your zip code in America, it could come back to you with the weather report [apps] out your front door and how it was going to refix your hair that day. And the way– and he didn’t have a list of the people to send it to, he actually, he spend $8,000 designing and developing the app and he spent a thousand dollars promoting it on Facebook and build a list that way, driving people back to the website and then sort of buy the app and he just targeted– he was very specific, he targeted women in New York at in 35 year old women in New York who work in the media through Facebook ads and he build a very, very big list and when we interviewed him a year and half ago, he already sold, I think it was about 300,000 of these apps.

James: Wow!

Tim: Yeah. For a dollar nineteen. So you don’t need a list. You just need to, as you say–

James: You just to stay to get going.

Tim: You need to get going. Shay, goes on to say, “Do you have to know a product or service to enable you to be an affiliate?” Well we’ve covered that. Or can you just select any product you like and sell it up? Covered that too, really, didn’t we?

James: Yeah, absolutely!

Tim: And that was it from Shay. They are all the questions we have on affiliate marketing James.

James: Well I think we’ve done a pretty good session on affiliate marketing, enough for people to know if it’s for them or not.

Tim: Yeah.

James: Some of the really attractive sides of affiliate marketing that you don’t have to set up everything, shopping carts, products, shipping, all that stuffs handled by whoever sells the thing. All you need to do is get people to go to the link that you get given. That’s it. You can do it part time. You can do it while you still got a job. You don’t have any customer service. You can do as much of it or as little of it as you want. So I found that to be one of the most ideal models while I was running a busy job just to continue to add pages to my site, get more traffic, keep refining my offer, and building that list until I turn into, I guess I went pro and turn into a product creator which is probably another business thing.

Tim: Yeah, it is. We’ll cover that another time. Just on the point of if you do go in the track of creating a website or run a particular affiliate product and you do start to build that list for people who are bored. It’s then about well you’ve got a list, you’ve got an asset there, so it’s then about in a timely manner, going and finding another product that that list is going to want to sell. So–

James: Exactly. You say what comes next?

Tim: What comes next?

James: If I have this hairdryer, what else am I likely to buy, probably looking at professional scissors and kinds and stuff I’m imagining, absolutely! And there is one other angle that I really want to highlight and this was the epiphany for me. If you are out there promoting– let’s say I’m promoting Tim’s course, and people buy through me. Well, these probably all bunch of people who bought your course through somebody else. Now what I do is I turn around and I turn my bonus product into a product in its own right, and my best customer is anyone who’s bought Tim’s course.

Tim: Hang on, hang on! It is late at night and I need you to explain that because if it’s that epiphany, it must be good. But I didn’t–

James: It is good.

Tim: – get– I didn’t quite get the–

James: Well I’ll tell you what happen to me historically. This is fact. I was promoting a software item and my bonus was how to use the software really well, and people were started approaching me saying, “I already have the software but I want you bonus. Can I buy if from you?” So I started selling the bonus on its own.

Tim: Okay.

James: And what I realized was even though I could sell from up to a hundred of this particular software items a month, I realized from my order numbers, I actually went looked at the sequence of order numbers that there was roughly 6 or 700 of these being sold every month. So I realized the market of people who I could sell my bonus to was more than the market of people that were buying the software.

Tim: So you pull out the bonus and give it its own–

James: Give it its own domain.

Tim: – its own line.

James: Its own name.

Tim: Yup.

James: And start selling and the day that I started selling it from its own domain, I was bringing over thousand dollars a days.

Tim: A day [you start]. So how did people know that because the people on your list had already bought the bonus and the product?

James: Yes, I actually got its own domain. And then as you put it available on its own right, I took it to market and away we went. That was phenomenal.

Tim: Great!

James: And that will happen to be a week that I was moving house and the first few days we’re making thousand dollars a day, and I said to my wife, “I could do this full time,” because that was about what my salary was, a thousand bucks a day And I said, “If we could do this on my week off, imagine what I could do if I have the rest of my life off this stupid job.”

Tim: Yeah.

James: So that was the point of no return, that week. That was the time that I actually thought that I could do it.

Tim: All right. Well, that’s affiliates.

James: That’s affiliate. Done, affiliate marketing.

Tim: Yeah. Well James, that reps– where we up, episode 8? Was that episode 8 of the Ocean?

James: Yeah, I’ll go with that.

Tim: I’ll go with that, too.

James: (Laughter)

Tim: Lucky number 8 for some. So until next time.

James: We’ll see you then.

Tim: We’ll see you in the Ocean! Oh man.


  1. Hi James and Tim, finding you guys has been great timing as I am a shoulder physiotherapist aka The Shoulder Guy and am about to finish treating clients 1 on 1 and move part of my business online.

    There are a couple of business strategies I was hoping that you could take more about in the future.

    1. How best to set up a membership site i.e. do I use Thesis and just use amember plug in and all my problems will be solved re taking membership payments, adding static and dynamic content, webinars etc?

    2. James you briefly mentioned something about using for example my The Shoulder Guy website as a portal to bring in clients and then have more localised branded pages for your physio contractors. So in fact all that I am is the marketing arm of the business and contractors (identified physio service providers) pay to be a member of The Shoulder Guy lead generating service and I help them to deliver the service to the end user. Sorry about long winded story but how could this be set up from an online strategy perspective?

    Again thanks for all your great information. It is really getting me thinking and taking action


    Luke Van Every

  2. Hi James and Tim:
    Hello from the USA! Thank you for your podcasts and the knowledge you share. You are so right that there is a lot of noise out there. Listening to your podcasts is helping me filter some of it out!
    I do have a question regarding affiliate marketing. I really like the “bonus” concept and I have started working on a bonus in an area I have expertise with. Unfortunately the affiliate product I would like to promote wants to see traffic to a website before they’ll let me be an affiliate. So, how does one go about becoming an affiliate when your site isn’t even built?

    • build your site. Get traffic. If they do not approve you promote another product and then re-apply. Once you sell stuff well you will usually be able to get approved for anything.

  3. Thanks Tim and James, look forward to hearing your answers to my questions.

    The big one for me really is…how did James go about getting together or sourcing his team of Ninjas? How is that done? Keep it local or hit the Philippines? I need a team of deadly ninjas too.

    Cheers and thanks again
    The Shoulder Guy

  4. If I wanted sell through affiliates, how do I track where the leads come from?

  5. Maria Fernandez says


    At the end of this episode you talk about a product you created on how to use Leadpages. Can you let me know where I could get it? I can’t find it on your site.



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