#68 What Is New For SEO


In this latest dip into Freedom Ocean, Tim anticipates an upcoming trip, he and James discuss Google’s Hummingbird update, and listeners learn the most current rules of effective SEO.


In this episode:

– Tips for incorporating business into travel
– Breaking down Hummingbird
– Why James isn’t affected by the move to query-based content
– Structuring your page titles
– What’s manipulative and what’s natural?
– The new standards of SEO
– Build your brand and be real
– Are you putting out enough content?
– How complicated is SEO?
Get an SEO health check Report for your website HERE


How does Hummingbird change the SEO game? [Click To Tweet].
It pays to be prolific with content. [Click To Tweet].
Are you overthinking SEO? [Click To Tweet].


Internet Marketing Products & Resources

Here you’ll find Tim and James have some things to help your business become more powerful.





Tim:                 Welcome back listeners to episode 68 of Freedom Ocean, the place where James Schramko and I, Timbo Reid, talk about everything in regards to online marketing and online businesses. Jimmy James Schramko, how are you, my friend?

James:            Very well, thank you Timbo.

Tim:                 Lovely to hear your dulcet tones from up in New South Wales, where it’s probably really warm. As I said before we hit record, I’m standing here in a polar fleece, and it’s two days out from summer.

James:            Do you feel ripped off?

Tim:                 Yeah, yeah, I feel totally ripped off. And the fact that I’m going to Italy for our summer means that I won’t see summer. Well, I’ll see summer in late January, so…

James:            Italy will be nice.

Tim:                 Italy. Yeah, it will be nice, mate. Yeah?

James:            Yeah. You’re going to need some local knowledge, perhaps, I could tell you all about my experience there.

Tim:                 Yeah? Well, I know you enjoyed it. I remember a little bit of Ferrari factory action coming back via the video.

James:            That is a top tip right there.

Tim:                 Right there.

James:            Top tip is to incorporate something business in your trip so that you can… maybe you can claim some of that trip on your tax if you’re doing something legitimately for business.

Tim:                 Correct.

James:            And if you know you’re going somewhere where there’s something really well known or relevant to your message, it’s really good to go there and record it with some kind of device, audio or video or otherwise, pictures.

Tim:                 Yeah, it’s interesting. I’ve kind of got that in mind, and it’s like, family holiday, we’re four weeks, and I’m kind of like, you know, do want to kind of lean into the holiday, but at the same time, by nature or the fact that it’s a small business, and it is me, I’ve kind of got to keep the thing going and I do like the idea of visiting things like going to Pompeii, and you know maybe creating a little video or an audio, drawing some comparisons between maybe how the Romans lived 2,000 years ago and how we do, and yeah.

James:            A lot of business lessons there and this is where we have that blurred line between what’s business and what’s living. An old guy last night actually asked me, “Will you do what you’re doing now up until you’re maybe 50 and then retire?” I’m like, “What are you talking about? I live like I’m retired now. That’s the whole point.” And he goes like, “Oh, yeah, I suppose you’re right.” This guy knows me. He’s known me for eight years, since I had a job, and I couldn’t believe that he still had the structure of retirement. But for me, wherever I go, It’s not like I can turn off my business mind anyway. I mean, I went to buy a sandwich yesterday, and the shop where I bought the sandwich is very clever. Where all the other shops have the whole shop dedicated to the showroom, and then they have the storehouse out the back, this thing is like, the whole thing is a production warehouse. Like they’re creating food, and their counter is pushed right to the front of the shop. There is no showroom. And this thing is busy all day. And guess what happens when there’s no showroom and everyone has to queue up to buy your food but they’re all standing on the footpath? It looks busy.

Tim:                 People are going, “What is going on over there?”

James:            They’re like seagulls. They’re just like, “Whooo, what’s going on here?” and then it’s like, oh, sandwiches, pastries, good value. And these people, they get it. They are just machine-like. But all through Italy I was making videos about the guy who built his house on the side of a mountain, when no one else… there’s no one else there, they all told him he was crazy, but he still did it anyway. Italians are half-crazy, anyway.

Tim:                 I hear you. In fact, we’re reading a… see now, the family last night were going through the kind of travel tips, and it sounds a scary place. If you kind of take on board everything that happens in Rome in regards to pickpockets and people trying to sell you things that you don’t need and just all the scams that go on, you wouldn’t go. You would not go.

James:            It’s not going to be the Indians there. You’re going to see, like right near the Trevi fountain, all the shops will be owned by Filipinos…

Tim:                 Wow.

James:            And there will be a lot of Indians and other cultures who are setting up all the scams and selling the fluro lights and they keep getting chased away every five minutes by the police. It happened the whole time I was there, it was fascinating.

Tim:                 Well maybe I need to review some scammers.

James:            You should. And they’ll be very aggressive if you don’t tip them, like the people performing, the buskers or whatever. If you look at them or admire them and then don’t tip, they’ll be like waving their hands, like give me the tip. They’re very passionate.

Tim:                 Well, that’s interesting. So anyway, I will be reporting back over the course of time while we’re there, in some way, shape or

form, whether it just be through social media or doing some videos or a podcast. Hey, I’ve got a podcast interview this afternoon, on the Small Business Big Marketing show, with none other than Dr. Snip.

James:            Oh? That’ll be fun.

Tim:                 Do you like that for a name?

James:            It sort of says what he does.

Tim:                 Correct, yeah yeah yeah. I’m really interested, because that’s kind of a business where your prospects are in fear. They don’t want to talk about it, they don’t really talk, they don’t want to know about it. So it must be a difficult business to market. So I’m kind of looking forward to figuring out how he does it. Plus, he’d be restrained by a whole code of conduct as well.

James:            And it’s just like, probably a one-time customer.

Tim:                 Yeah, that’s right.

James:            Imagine referrals.

Tim:                 “Oh, you’ve got to go to this bloke – best vasectomy. God, he’s good. He just grabbed them and he just snipped it and oh, I was home in ten.”

James:            But I suppose their customers are other doctors, like GPs and stuff. Where they get their referrals from, like in the literal, formal sense of referrals. “I’m going to refer you to Dr. Snip.”

Tim:                 Yes. And in fact, I rang to confirm the interview today, and it went through to a GP’s practice, so it sounds like he’s operating out of a GP’s practice.

James:            Well, I bet a lot of their business comes from the golf course, the restaurants, the yacht club…

Tim:                 Well, it’s not just rich people who have snips, James.

James:            No, but I’m saying that they’re coming from doctors. And doctors are very, you know, they’re through that old school tie thing, it’s like you go to school, then you study for what, seven years or something, and then you get to be a doctor. So they’re going to be a little more traditional academia types in that referral channel, and they’re going to… I’ve dealt with a lot of doctors and medicos when I was at Mercedes-Benz. They do still wear ties, and they did go to college and they do play golf, and they do have yachts, they do live in nice houses. It’s old school. I wonder how you’ll go, I wonder how you’ll go, I’ll listen to that episode.

Tim:                 Thank you, I’ll say hello to you.

James:            Haha. Thanks.

Tim:                 Now Jimmy, we’ve got a bit of a ground to cover here today, excuse the pun. One is we’re going to talk about travel tips. What you do when you pick up and head out somewhere. When you’re out and about, when you decide to go on holidays, in the state or when you just want to be mobile. Some tips on that. And you know last episode, we did promise we’d give a quick update on what’s happening on the world of SEO. So why don’t we start with that and give 10 minutes summation on the impact of Hummingbird which is the most recent update of the Google algorithm and from everything I read, it seems to be the most significant update since 2 or 3 years ago. I’ve heard about Penguin and Panda but Hummingbird seems to be a game changer?

James:            Yeah, so they’re saying Hummingbird has been rolled out longer than people thought and it’s more broad sweeping than what they thought. We’ve just seen this trend that Google is moving away from keyword-based search, more on to query-based which searching for how-to and the sort of natural searches that people would put in whole phrases rather than just a keyword.

Tim:                 What I understand too around that is that it’s kind of setting themselves up for the fact that we are going to do more voice-based searching? As we get used to things like Siri and other devices become more accurate. We’re going to be saying things like, instead of saying “Sydney opera house pictures” we might say, “Give me some pictures of the Sydney opera house.”

James:            Exactly right. It’s what people would actually say, which ties in wonderfully with Own The Racecourse training that I teach because I have been saying forever, focus on what real people are looking for and I’ve even given some clues as to where that would be. So there’s this big uproar in some circles, you know, “Google aren’t showing you the keywords anymore in Analytics and they’re hiding it all and blah blah blah” and that doesn’t really affect me because I stopped using little built-in tools, keyword stuff, ages like years ago. What I pay attention to is my analytics, what are people finding my site for, what sort of phrases and I pay a lot of attention to that and of course you know that most of my videos are FAQ style-videos like how to do this or why you should use blah blah blah or such-and-such versus such-and-such. These are things that people are really interested in it turns out, they also buy things if they’re looking for those things. So query-based content is good to do.

Tim:                 See, I’ll give you another example. It didn’t show up yesterday but I want to buy a Sony Cybershot camera to take away and of course there’s a number of different models of that camera available. So you type in “sony cybershot model comparison” which is kind of a semantic kind of way that you would type it in ‘cause we’re used to talking to search engines but the new way would be, “What’s the difference between the different Sony Cybershot models?” Much more conversational.

James:            That’s exactly the kind of video that I would make, “Why I switched to Wistia,” “Office AutoPilot versus Aweber” and the sort of things that pop up in our helpdesk will certainly end up on our site. If you’re going to look in your Google Analytics account these days you’ll see that they’ve really changed the layout and the sort of things that they want to show you. They’re talking about acquisition these days and which channels people are using and the behavior of the visitor to your site, the flow. So they really try to present a slightly different thing and when you want to dig into keywords, they’re not going to show you a lot of it and the bulk of it, almost all of them, will not be provided these days, so you might want to look at other things like on the secondary dimension. You can have a look at the behavior of the visitors or their conversion, how long does it take for someone to convert. And you can learn more about the way people are using your site and interacting with it from some of these secondary things. You can certainly have a look at the browsers they’re using, the genders, the pages that they’re landing on, these things give you the ability to segment by type of visitor and all sorts of stuff.

Tim:                 Jimmy, you know what I understand with Hummingbird, page title is still important and correct me if I’m wrong mate but they are?

James:            Page titles are important. Meta description is important and basically, the originality of your content is important, the authorship of it.

Tim:                 So just to the point of page titles, what do we got, 160 characters to complete a page title? So with “Sydney opera house pictures” which would be with the old semantic way, that’s what we type into Google to help the search engine understand us. Now the new way, “Give me some pictures of the Sydney opera house” – is that what your page title is going forward or is it still “Sydney opera house pictures”?

James:            Well, you might put something like “pictures of Syndey Opera House” as your page title, it’s OK.

Tim:                 A little bit more conversational.

James:            It’s really what you would put on a dymo tape. How would you label that in a filing cabinet if you were to write a folder and put them in it? If you were to take pictures, pictures of Sydney Opera House.

Tim:                 Really? Can I just challenge that?

James:            Sure.

Time:              Can I just challenge that? Because… “on a dymo tape,” like 1974. My memory of the dymo tape, dymo label or whatever they’re called, was you wanted to be fairly brief because it wasn’t cheap. That tape stuff wasn’t cheap so you weren’t going to go, you weren’t going to be verbose. So, I’m not sure that’s probably the best analogy.

James:            Alright, well, what would you write on the folder if you were putting it in a filing cabinet?

Tim:                 Well, the folder isn’t…

James:            You’ve got pictures, you’ve got pictures of The Opera House on your desk and just say you want to them in an envelope.

Tim:                 Yup.

James:            And you put the envelope in a filing cabinet. What would you write on them?

Tim:                 Well, I’d put “Syndey Opera House Pictures.”

James:            Yes, so that’s what your page title would be.

Tim:                 Because that just feels as though that’s not conversational, that’s semantic.

James:            And it’s OK for the… it’s quite literal. For the page title, it’s OK. It’s really just one part of the overall algorithm. They’re going to pay a lot of attention to the words on the page and how you name the pictures.

Tim:                 Uh-uh.

James:            But what you can see in your analytics these days is the social relationship of how many people are visiting the whole sorts of different places and how many different… you know, they’re trying to mix in the importance of stuff like that but if you have a multi-platform presence, then you start to really hit that hotspot of customers. So, let’s just expand this a little more. Just some basics here. Using actual phrases that people might talk into their computer, that would be good. To pay attention to your analytics and see what you can learn about your existing visitors is very good. And, to have a look at typing those phrases into Google and see what pops up on the bottom of the page, right? So if we did go to Google and we typed “Sydney Opera House pictures” then, there’s a lot of pictures coming up as the first result which is great because if you were in that market, you would have a lot of pictures of The Sydney Opera House on your site, one would hope. And, down the bottom, it has searches related to Sydney Opera House pictures and it said: Sydney Opera House pictures for kids, Sydney Opera House pictures inside, Sydney Opera House map, Sydney Opera House reviews, then there’s attractions…

Tim:                 OK, so that’s the whole Google…

James:            You know, tour photos and images free. So, they’re saying: Well, we think these things are pretty similar. So, if you’re in any of those particular categories, you might have an entire post about taking your kids to the Sydney Opera House and here are some pictures that are available for school children to use in school projects and that you give authority for them to use the image royalty free as long as it’s for a school project, for example. Now, you start using words like “school project” or “children” then it’s really going to start a thing well, this is similar to kids and they can figure that stuff out quite easily.

Tim:                 Yeah. So, just to be… let’s just focus on of those searches related to Sydney Opera House pictures at the bottom of that search page, we’ve got “Sydney Opera House pictures inside”, so then we go and go: “OK, going to create a blog post about pictures of the inside of the interiors of the Sydney Opera House.” So, we make sure that that phrase…

James:            I’ll give you a little tip.

Tim:                 Yeah?

James:            Click on that link. Right?

Tim:                 Yup.

James:            And then, have a look at what’s on the bottom of that page.

Tim:                 That page. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

James:            And now, you’re getting a little more depth. It’s like the architecture of Sydney Opera House. The Syndey Opera House at night, tour photos.

Time:              Yeah, Sydney Opera House at night, Sydney Opera House inside photos, all that kind of stuff.

James:            Yeah, insider’s login. So…

Tim:                 So, can I just stop you there because you’re on a roll? And, I just want, again, clarification, so we pick one of those things. I’m going to pick “Sydney Opera House at night.” We create a blog post. We want to have that, I’m guessing as the headline. We want to see that phrase or something very similar to it in the first paragraph or two of the copy. We probably want to see an image with that alt text completed like that. We want a page title that is similar to that. Are we on the right track here?

James:            No, that’s old SEO. That’s over-thinking it.

Tim:                 Over-thinking, OK.

James:            Yeah. Really, I would just say you might have it in your title, “Sydney Opera House at night,” but your headline could be something completely different. It might be “How to get more out of your nighttime tour of Sydney Opera House.” And then it would be a natural article: I was with my kids, we visited

Sydney, we grabbed the camera, we thought we’d hop on the ferry, we took in some lovely views of the Harbor Bridge but what really caught our eye was the Opera House and it is stunning at night, blah blah blah. You don’t try and put the the word anywhere. Don’t d**k around with the picture and manipulate it to be exactly that phrase. You might put a picture in like might be a “Opera House 001 JPEG,” it doesn’t have to be literally that.

Tim:                 Really?

James:            But, certainly you don’t want to be. Like, it’s too easy for them to find an overly manipulated site.

Tim:                 Can I just say that there’s a difference…

James:            There’s a difference between helping them understand what the site is about versus trying to grab them by the scruff of the neck and lead them to it and jam their face into it and say: “Look how clever I am.”

Tim:                 Yeah, OK. I get you and I trust you Jimmy. I trust you. Don’t get me wrong but what I went through then, I wouldn’t say was “jamming” it was just like: “Well, that’s a picture of the Sydney Opera House at night.”

James:            Yeah, but you’re just way past the average bear’s knowledge base. If the things that warning bell for me, if you have the title, the exact phrase somewhere in the paragraph and the exact image name, that’s starting to look very manipulative.

Tim:                 Right.

James:            It’s just unnatural.

Tim:                 Uh-uh, got you.

James:            It used to work like that.

Tim:                 Yup.

James:            But it doesn’t work like that so much.

Tim:                 So, Google are smart enough to be able to go: Well, there’s a headline that sort of seems to be about going to the Sydney Opera House at night and there’s a picture of an inside of the Sydney Opera House and so they’re kind of going through the algorithm figure out that: “Yeah, that’s an article about Sydney Opera House at night.”

James:            Yeah, and the funny thing is when you look at the search results for that, you’ll see that the authoritative site like the Sydney Opera House site itself comes up first, which is appropriate. It’s got lots of Google reviews and stuff and then you’ve got Wikipedia’s listing, which is right. But then you’ve got the Foodies Night. Win the Foodies Night, Sydney Opera House. So, it’s not in the exact same phrase. It’s talking about winning an ultimate Foodies Night out with Matt Moran but it is relevant. It’s about night and it’s about Opera House. And then you go into stuff like you get all the other Sydney Opera House subpages coming through which are…

Tim:                 TripAdvisor.

James:            Yeah, and they’ve got one night only. So, you don’t have to have the exact phrase there for you to be able to run. And then, down there is like a Wednesday night, Night online special. And then, there’s on the number 10 listing is a Flickr image with Sydney Opera House at night, the exact phrase but it’s only the tenth on the page.

Tim:                 Yes.

James:            I reckon if they overdid it, it’d be booted. See, Penguin was the first algorithm really that I think, it just put the hammer down on people who manipulate backlinks. So what they’re really doing is now filtering out people who are too perfect because they don’t want to be manipulated. They want the most relevant result.

Tim:                 Yup.

James:            Now, if you were a spammer trying to rank for that phrase, you could put up a terrible page and just put the phrase three times, name the image and expect to be on the top of the search results a few years ago. But now, that’s not enough. They’re going to look at other stuff – How authoritative is your site? How many pages are on it? How much trust do they have in that domain? How old is it? How fast does the page load? How easy is it to navigate? Do the words actually make sense? Is the image new or has it been on the Internet a thousand times before? These things are important now. Who links to this? Has it got a mix of links from different social medias and some shares and some comments and some reviews? Or has it got a thousand links to just the homepage with the exact same anchor text from blogrolls, forum footers and link farms? They can tell this stuff. So, old SEO is out, forget it. And, a lot of SEOs have packed up their bags and moved on or they’ve just got so bored with it. The game has really changed to the point where it’s much harder to manipulate Google using the old easy shortcuts, so they just moved on and gone to different areas.

Tim:                 I’m really excited for the small business item more than I am the Internet marketer because it’s just moving towards conversation, so like be yourself?

James:            Yeah, that’s it.

Tim:                 It’s like when I’m talking to them about their copy or speaking from stage or trying to build a brand around their business.

James:            That’s exactly what I do.

Tim:                 It’s like it’s recognizing the human.

James:            Look at SuperFastBusiness. Every single post is a legit, genuine question and answer piece of content with original words, original video, original image, original audio and actual comments from real humans and some social shares and what do you know? It’s got like stacks of indexed pages. I’ve got search traffic cramming into it. I get a thousand opt-ins a month now from actual, real content put in a nice fast-loading site that’s easy to navigate, that’s original, that is remarkable enough for people to share and that’s what you should be doing. Yes, you can hire a company like ours to go and create some content and to carefully place it and socialize it and get it put in certain places. If you got nothing, then that’s fine, do that. If you’ve got something really competitive, like a sunglasses e-commerce store, then you might need a little bit of help to nudge it over the edge.

Tim:                 You haven’t been listening to the Small Business Big Marketing Show have you?

James:            No.

Tim:                 Oh, thanks.

James:            I don’t, actually.

Tim:                 That’s a kick on the head.

James:            Because, well…

Tim:                 Woah, just insert punch sound effect. No, I interviewed an e-commerce sunglasses store owner in Bali a couple of weeks ago.

James:            Oh, right. Well, just turns out that that’s sort of the typical high-end user of our SEO services where they’ve got literally thousands of products. They are never going to get to them all themselves and they really do need a link from here or there and they need some help with content. A lot of our stuff is on-page. These days, we’ll log onto the site, we’ll write original content, update the description and make sure it’s all clean and heaps of our stuff is, of course, hosting. We’re just speeding up sites, make them much quicker, cleaning up their janky plugins and bloated code and making them super responsive. So, Matt Cutts has come out and said: “Responsive websites are good for SEO.” They’re not getting that diffusion of pagerank and separation that mobile sites tend to have. So, a responsive site just means it’s one site and it works really well in just about any browser. So we’ve been doing browser work with customers making their site work on anything. Making it fast, making it easy to navigate, making it convert better so you’ve got more profit to reinvest back into content. Helping people put rich media on their site like videos and audios and pictures and yes, you can still do a press release here and there, you can still do blog guest posts and stuff here and there, but don’t go and buy Fiverr jobs. Don’t put forum spammy profiles. Don’t put blogroll links on someone’s sidebar with a full follow link. And don’t use the same anchor text from every single site to just your home page. That’s dumb, and it will get you slapped faster than abusing some pretty girl at a pub. Work on design, work on owning your brand, work on people searching for your name. You’d rather have people looking for Tim Reid or Small Business Big Marketing than “podcast on how to grow my business faster.” So build your brand into an authority. Build your name into an authority. And be real. That’s what it’s about. And the old tricks don’t work. Forget about them. And forget about all those little tools, and bits and pieces… you don’t need that. You just need to start with a real human, an actual topic, and make something worthwhile. And then put it up there and then tell people about it and hope that they can help you perpetuate it a little more. You know, Facebook it, Google + it, tweet it, pin it, and LinkedIn, and you’re done.

Tim:                 And Jimmy, in terms of understanding your prospects’ intentions and questions they have, you’ve covered analytics, you’ve covered looking at emails, helpdesk queries, we’ve talked about Google predictive search, any other kind of key areas where you’d go to see what’s on their mind?

James:            Yeah, you can look at other platforms, have a look at Apple, have a look at iTunes, see what’s ranking, see what gets lots of reviews. See what people are discussing. See what’s hot on Facebook. It is quite straightforward and logical. And then you just have to implement. So the big thing where most people fall down is that they’re just not doing enough. They might put, you know, one post a month or something. I saw an earnings report the other day from one of the other podcasts in our market, and they… I think they did one post in the whole month. Then they stopped doing podcasts, and it all stopped. It slowed right down and they had a low traffic month. And that is because the flipside of content marketing and authority building is that it works really well when you’re doing it, and it slows down a bit when you slow down, which we’ve found ourselves. But when we start being more prolific, amazingly, the sales start. We had a booming week last week with keyword research reports and article orders and image orders, and coincidentally I think I put out two videos on the whole topic of content and how to have good content and how to build up your SEO traffic by focusing more on your site. So that’s the overarching thing here, is put a lot more effort into your website with rich, original media, lay it out well, and forget about peppering the exact phrase through the content. Forget about exactly naming the image with the exact phrase that you want, with the exact page title, because that is contrived and it will get you in trouble.

Tim:                 What do you say to people… the question I get asked often is “How often should you put content out?” And my answer is always “As often as you can.”

James:            As much as you can afford to.

Tim:                 Yeah, and that’s based on time and money. More often time than money, because it doesn’t have to cost a lot.

James:            Yeah, there’s going to be a cost of time or money or both. In my case, I’ve got this thing where I’m pretty much publishing something everyday, whether it’s on this podcast, my other podcast or my main site. I’m publishing something most days. It’s a good sort of routine and basically I know what I get for that and chances are if I were to publish more, I could accelerate my opt-ins and sell more stuff and there would be a cost to time or money. I’m putting out let’s say 30 pieces of content a month, but when we actually syndicate that on our other sites it ends up being more like a hundred or a hundred and fifty pieces of content, and that drives six figures in sales every single month, more than a hundred thousand dollars. Every single month is driven primarily from just me doing one piece of content per day. That’s the KPI.

Tim:                 Now give us an example of what you mean by syndicate. So you put a bit of content on a site, you put up a video on SuperFastBusiness. Then you syndicate it. What does “syndicate” mean? Look like?

James:            OK, so two things there. One is I share that piece of content to my main network. So I’ll Facebok it, Google+ it, tweet it, LinkedIn it, and pin it. But what my team will also do… we have three categories on SuperFastBusiness. We have business, traffic and website. If it’s a traffic video, then they will take the same video, they will embed it on SEOPartner’s blog, and they will rewrite the bullets for that video, and it’s now a new piece of content. It looks different in the eyes of Google, it’s got a different page title, it has a different metadescription, it has different bullets, which is probably four or five long phrase query-based sort of words, and they’ll publish it there. And the funny thing is, basically from one video, we can end up with three or four different posts. It will also end up on JamesSchramkoNews.com, and it will also end up on LinkJuice.com, and probably TrafficSure.com. So that one video will go to four or five sites….

Tim:                 All with different bullet points, all with different headings?

James:            You got it, baby.

Tim:                 Yeah. You reckon Google are far away from being able to interpret what’s being said in the video and audio? Actually just listen…

James:            I think they probably can. I think they have a bit of a stab at interpreting it already and they do their own version of…

Tim:                 They do, don’t they?

James:            So yes, absolutely they’re getting good at reading rich media. But the thing is, I actually did a test this morning, and I found a listing. I was able to search for a phrase, and I was able to find two versions of my videos on the first page of Google for that phrase, and one was the YouTube version of it, and one was the Wistia player that’s on my site version of it, which is a more recent version that we just updated. So I am able to rank the same piece of content with multiple listings on the first page of Google, even though they’ve sort of related phrases.

Tim:                 Mate, that 10-minute conversation about SEO…

James:            It’s so simple for me, but I live and breathe it everyday.

Tim:                 Yes, correct, correct. So I think it’s good to have that update and probably we should do that everytime an update comes out, and Hummingbird is a couple of months… yeah, nearly a couple of months old now, so it is a good conversation to have and we haven’t had it on the show, which I think probably demands that we leave travel tips until the next episode. We always have a carry-over. You know?

James:            Didn’t that time fly? My goodness.

Tim:                 Fly, absolutely.

James:            And do you know, the whole thing with SEO, it is fascinating. It gets so much attention, and it is still my number one selling service. Over a million dollars a year in sales from just that topic, service provision. I think because people want to be on the first page of Google. It’s still a very appealing idea. And we’re getting really good at it now. But mostly because we don’t do a lot of the things that people think you have to do. Most people are over-thinking SEO. They’re over-teching it… And that’s why a lot of the industry guys are bailing, because what can you do with their propellerhead stuff now, all their algos and their formulate stuff, like it’s all useless. All those add-ons you don’t need anymore.

Tim:                 Fascinating, isn’t it? Anyone who listens back to this conversation, no matter what their level of kind of expertise in this area, it’s not that complicated. You know? it’s just…

James:            It’s more organic now than ever before. The advantage is going to go to someone who wants to make real stuff, and to structure it properly. You have great stuff, and just not get it out there because your site sucks. So put more attention to your website. I mean there’s no coincidence that the part of my business that’s growing the fastest is our web development firm, because we’re building responsive, fast-loading websites and we’re hosting them and we’re making it easier for people to get to the content, and that’s pretty much the test bench for that was SuperFastBusiness, and it’s just proving more and more powerful since I started it well before Hummingbird. Hummingbird is literally like the, we endorse OwnTheRacecourse methodology.

Tim:                 Yeah, endorsed by Google. Alright Jimmy, well that’s a good episode, mate. We’ve covered some ground, we will do travel tips in next week’s episode for sure, because I’ll be heading out shortly thereafter.

James:            And I will have been gone, so I’ll tell you what I’ve….

Tim:                 Where are you off to?

James:            Oh, I’m off to the Philippines. I’m going to take my team to lunch.

Tim:                 Very nice. How are they?

James:            They’re all good.

Tim:                 Everyone’s well, safe?

James:            Everyone’s well, safe and amazing, of course. As always.

Tim:                 Yeah, that’s good, buddy. Alright mate, listen, that has been Freedom Ocean. You can head over to FreedomOcean.com and find our back catalog, I think there’s transcripts, there’s all sorts of goodness there, so head over there. And Jimmy, have a wonderful week, mate, I’ll see you next week.

James:            Cool. And I was going to ask you one thing, Timbo. What’s this webinar that you’re setting and how can people find out about it?

Tim:                 Oh, that’s very kind of you. That is next Wednesday, December 4, 9 a.m. Australian Eastern daylight savings time. It’s a content marketing webinar, goes for two hours. I’m going to share how content marketing has been kind of the primary source of marketing for the business growth that I’ve experienced in the last four years, and I’m going to share how I’ve done that with podcasting and blogging and speaking and a little bit of video. And then I’m going to go deep into blogging, podcasting and videos, three forms of content marketing. I’ve got a couple of special guests, Andrew Griffiths, who’s a well-known small business author in Australia, and a mate of mine, Dr. Ben, who’s nailing video for his chiro practice. So I’m just going to lift the lid on content marketing, James, and people can head over to SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com and click on the webinar button if they listened to this. Well actually, it depends on when this goes out, mate. We might have been done and dusted.

James:            No, I think we’ll be on time.

Tim:                 Right-o. If we get it out on Monday, happy days.

James:            Yeah, we will.

Tim:                 Alright, buddy. Love your work, and I’ll see you next week.

James:            Right. See you, Timbo.


  1. Great information on SEO James. It’s so important to have that original content that people can actually interact with. Rigid SEO still works though, but it’s important to use these types of hummingbird changes.

  2. Brett Parry says

    Great stuff as usual boys. Thanks.

  3. Sooo, do you recommend deleting the plugins that are supposed to help measure how well you’re doing with on-page seo, like “measure my seo” and yoast?

    They encourage H2 for title in post, as well as keyword density, etc…

    Thanks in advance for your time!

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