#4 What To Avoid When Launching A Successful Internet Marketing Business.


This is the episode where James lays out, in no uncertain terms the things you must avoid when starting a successful Internet marketing business.

PLUS, Tim’s questioning of James leads us down the path of discussing :

  • What James would do differently if he was starting out today.
  • What’s wrong with FREE.
  • Which countries are leading the way in Internet marketing.
  • The characteristics of a successful Internet marketer.
  • What James sacrificed in his early days as he grew what is now a seven figure online business.

Plus we set you some homework that will take 60 seconds to complete but may just change your productivity and effectiveness forever.

Quote of the show – “Be ready for a life of poverty!” – James Schramko.

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Duration: 42.5 minutes.

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Tim: James Schramko, welcome back to the Freedom Ocean.
James: I love the Freedom Ocean.

Tim: I do too. What do you love about it?

James: Well,  I  love  the  fast  that  it  is  so  wide  open,  there  is  really no  limit  and  that  is  exciting  because it challenges  you,  make  you  feel  alive.

Tim: Yeah.  The  ocean  is  one  the  great  energy  sources  so  I  think we’re  on  to  something.  Now we have covered a lot in the first three episodes.  I  would  love  as  I  said  in  episode  2, I  would still love to  be  able  to say  we  have  been inundated  with  inquires and questions  and  listener feedback,  but  it  is  still  the  same  day that we  started episode  one  at  so  we  are  just  rolling  at  these episodes  one  after  the  other  and  they  will slowly  find  their  way on  to  why  tune  so  reckon  by  about  episode  5  or  6  or 7,  we can  actually confidentially  say  we  have  got  some feedback.

James: Yes  well  you  know  this  is  something  interesting  about internet  marketing  which  is  the  topic  of our  entire podcast series  is  that  quiet  often  you  will  be  creating content  or putting  out  a  business  model where  you don’t  really  know for certain, if  it  is  going  to  be  successful. You  might  be  able  to filter  it  down and  get  it  close  to the  mark  and  I  think  we will probably cover  that  in  one of  today’s  topics  -­‐  that  is  the biggest  mistakes  that people  make.

Tim: Yeah absolutely.  And  one  of  the  great  things  about  internet      marketing  too  though  is  that  the  risk  is not  as  high  as it would be  if  you  are  actually  you  know  going  to  bricks and  mortar business  or  carrying huge  amounts  of  stock or  you  know the barriers  to  entry  just  aren’t  as  high are they?

James: Yeah  and  that  means  a  few  things,  one  is  just  about  in  any lunatic  can  get  on  and  be  your competitor.

Tim: Yeah that is right.

James: So  you  know  low  barrier  to  entry.

Tim: Hello  to  all  you  lunatics!

James: Also  means  that  you  know  anyone  can  get  online  -­‐  so there  is  a  little  bit  noise,  a  little  bit  of clutter  and  the good thing  about  though  if  you  are  listening  to  this podcast  which  I  am  guessing  you  are because  you  are hearing  me  right now.

Tim: Correct.

James: Then  you  will  have  a  far  greater  advantage  than  the average person  online.

Tim: Yeah

James: And  that  is  what  is  essential  when  you  do  the  online  thing, get  the  best  information  you  can and  implement  it  and you will  be  able  to  shine  compared  to  the  competitors.

Tim: Yeah,  Yeah  and  look  you  and  I  just  before  we  clicked  the record  button  on  this  episode  had  a  great discussion like if you can  guide  me  some  fantastic  advice  and  the penny  really  started  to  drop  see  just how  easy  it  can be;  there  is  magic  in the  action,  there  is  not  doubt about  that.  The  modular  nature  of everything  we  are talking  about;  how  one  can  slip  easily into  the  other. One  plays  off  the  other,  one  adds value  to  the  other side.  The  idea  of  may  be  running  webinars  and  turning that  into some  product  that  has some  affiliate  links  in  it which  of  the  back  that  allows  you  build  at  least  you can  then  feed the additional information  too  and  gosh you  know  -­‐  fantastic  to  be able  to  sort  of  see  that  as a  …

James: Hey  really,  it  is  like  Lego  land.

Tim: Don’t  cheapen  at  it.

James: Well,  no  I  don’t  think  Lego  is  cheap  by  the  way.

Tim: No  I  don’t.  It  is  fantastic.

James: You  got  kids.  You  know  you  can  snap  what  these  things into  different  formations  and  what  I would  like  as  to achieve to  have  audience  get  comfortable  with  the building  blocks.

Tim: Yeah.

James: You  know  once  they  are  empowered  with  that  it  is  amazing what  you  can  create  so  I  think  we should  push  through.

Tim: Okay.

James: Get  into  the  next  phase.

Tim: Well  before  we  talk  about  things  to  avoid  when  launching internet  marketing  business,  I  am  just interested  to  ask you what  would  you,  if  you  are  starting  it  today  what would  you  do differently?  From when  you  started  out  six years  ago?

James: Okay  well,  the  biggest  mistake  I  made  was  trying  to  find everything  for  free  and  we  sort  of covered  that  in  the last discussion  that  is  I  think  it  took  me  a  full  nine  or ten months,  I  can’t  remember exactly  but  about  that long until  I bought my  first  ebook  for  30  something  dollars and  I  was just  loathed  to  spend  money  on  this  thing but  here  is  the funny  thing  I was  getting  paid  about 300  thousand  dollars  a year  in  my  job  and  I  was  in  a professional  field  where  we paid  thousands  for people who  get  trained  in how  to  sell  and yet  I  wouldn’t  spend even  30  dollars  to,  on  an  information product.

Tim: Yeah.

James: That  would  teach  me  how  to  learn  internet  marketing  faster so  here  I  was  for  hours  and  hours and  hours  fumbling my  way  through  from  the  most  basic  level  you  know, even  trying  to  learn  how  to use  the  computer  and  I mean  I should have  seen  it  so  much  earlier  and  the core  lesson that  I  got  then you  know  is  since  I switched on  to  getting  the  right information  there  is  not  a resource  I  that  won’t  buy  at  the  drop  of  hat  if  it  is  the right  resource,  if  it  is  going  to  save  me time  and  if  I can  make  more  money back  then  what  I  spend  on  it  I am  all  over  it.

Tim: That  is  good  advice  because  there  is  a  lot,  well  I,  there  is  a lot  of  stuff  out  there  and  some  of  it  you can  look  at the price and  go  Oh  that  is  it  really  going  to  give  me  the return  that  I will  need  to  cover  the cost  but  you  do, you have  to  buy the bullet  and  buy  some  stuff  because  you know  the  funny  thing is, funny  or  not,  you  know  like, there  is  a  lot  bit  of  quality of information  online  then going  down  the  local book  shop.

James: There  is  heaps  of  stuff,  you  know  people  have  already  done just  about  everything  you  could think  of  and  take  it  to  a higher  level.

Tim: Yeah  and  very  niche  information  online  like  I  was  in  a  book shop  it  was  really  good  book  shop  the other  and  there was this really  quite  good  looking  book  on  Twitter,  I said  that  I  pretty cool  and  I  went  to buy  it  and  you know  what  anything in  that book  A  is  outdated  and  B  I am  going  to  find  that  and  better online  as  an information  product.  They  are  cheaper  too.

James: Yeah  that  is  right.  Well  you  probably  stumble  over  some high  quality  free  podcasts  for example.  Now  I  want  to just caution  people  about  FREE  because  I  see  this  as some type of  obsession online.  People  looking  for  free, free,  free  and  I want to  challenge  that  because  I don’t  know  many businesses  where  everything  is  free  -­‐ you  know  a  real business  has  got  costs  -­‐ even  a restaurant  you know  they have  to  buy  food,  they  have to  pay  staff  and  they  have  got to  get  furniture  and  you know kitchen  appliances  and  stuff now  if  they  got everything  for  free  would  you  be  worried about  where they got  that  from?

Tim: Yeah  exactly.

James: You  know  they  are  like  cruising  this  straight  night  looking  for spare  tables  and  chairs?

Tim: You  get  what  you  pay  for.

James: I  think  if  you  are  careful  and  you  do  your  research,  yes  you can  make  wise  purchasing decisions  that  are  going  to fast track  your  success  -­‐  so  don’t  be  obsessed  with free  this free  that.  In almost  every  case  the  paid version of  a  solution will give  you  more  features  and  a  better result  than  the free version  you  know  with  the  exception of  some  of  the  most established items  out  there  such as Google  for  example.  I mean  that  is  a  free  thing  that has  fantastic  level  of deliverability  for  things  like Gmail for  managing  email,  it  is probably  better  than  outlook which  is  the  Microsoft  paid  you know solution  so  …

Tim: As  an  Internet  marketer  can  you  give  away  too  much  for  free?

James: I  think  you  can  train  your  customers  to  never  buy  anything from  you!  So  there  is  that  element. I  think  it  is something you  have  to  be  careful  of.

Tim: We  see  a  lot  of  it,  you  know  people  would  argue  that  oh  you know  you  can’t  give  away  too  much because  if  they love what you  are  giving  away  they  are  going  to  kind of  want  to  come and  buy  from  you and  use  your services  anyway  but  there is  a lot  being  given  away and  it  just  cheapens  the  other  stuff.

James: Yeah  well  there  are  a  few  arguments  all  the  way  but  in  any case  you  will  as  an  Internet marketer  or  within  your Internet  marketing  division  or  campaigns  you  will  have some  free  content  at some  point  more  than  likely  as  an entry  point for  people  because  there  is  really  no resistance  to  free. People  don’t  guard  their  time  as much  as  they  should  therefore  they will  go  out  of  their way  to  get something  for  free  even  if  it  takes  some  ten hours  -­‐  you  know  versus  the  ten  minute  paid solution in some  cases.

Tim: Yeah.

James: So  you  know  it  is  fascinating.  Some  will  drive  across  town to  save  three  dollars  on  an  item  and spend  four  dollars in petrol  -­‐  you  know  so  people  do  go  a  bit  crazy  with free stuff.

Tim: What  else  would  you  do  differently?

James: The  other  thing  is  I  wouldn’t  fuss  so  much  about  design elements  in  the  beginning  I  spent  a  lot of  hours mucking around  with  my  web  templates  you  know,  I  actually learned too  many  things  that  is probably  the  third  one. You  don’t need to  know  a  lot  of  the  stuff  that  you might  think  you need  to  know, you  know,  if  you  were to  say  to  me  Tim  I am not  a  tech person,  I’d  say  that  is fine,  you  don’t  have  to  be because  there  is  plenty  of tech  people  as  we  covered  in  the other  episodes you know  for  five  or  twenty dollars  will  do things  that  might take  you  a  month  to  learn.

Tim: Yeah.

James: And  why  would  you  do  that?  You  just  wouldn’t  so  I  actually learnt  how  to  do  everything.  I learned  how  to  make  e-covers,  you  know  like  graphic  called  representations  of magazine  covers,  I  learnt how  to  build  my  own  websites and in hindsight  I  mean  I  actually  don’t  build  my websites anymore  which is  funny  because  I  know  how to  build  a website,  I  am really  good  at  it  and  I  don’t build  it.

Tim: Do  you  think  it  is  value  in  knowing  the  process  that  the people you  are  employing  go  through  to  do it  though?

James: Well,  I  am  not  sure  that  completely  holds  true  you  know  if  I was  to  setup  a  feminine  hygiene website,  would  I  have to  go  through  the  process  to  truly  be  able  to  sell  that or  do  you  think  I  could  buy past  that  step?

Tim: Well  I  am  not  sure  it  will  be  possible  for  you  to  go  through the  process!

James: Exactly  so  I  am  in  some  markets  where  that  would  be impossible  for  me.

Tim: Yeah

James: And  so  I  think  you  know  take  it  with  a  grain  of  salt  that having  to  know  the  whole  steps,  you don’t  really,  you know, do  you  drive  a  car  Tim?

Tim: I  do.

James: Do  you  every  single  possible  detail  exactly  how  every component  of  that  car  works.

Tim: Probably.

James: Or  you  just  get  in  and

Tim: 2%

James: Push  the  throttle  and  that  is  it.

James: Steer  the  steering  wheel.

Tim: Put  pedal  on  the  road.

James: Yes, so  I  would  argue,  you  don’t  really  need  to  know  every minute,  you  do  need  to  know  some macro  elements sure, if you  know,  if  you  do  know,  you  know  if  you know  how  to write  an  article  and then  you  hire  an article  writer,  yes  you will know  how  much,  you  know what  to  expect,  what standard you  expect  but  I  could put  my  hand  up  and  say  I don’t  really know  all  of  the processes  that  my  team  do but  I  buy  them  information courses  to  study  so  that  I  don’t  have  to  and  they implement  with  a  far greater  result  than  I  could,  they are amazing,  they  are  super  super  talented  and  I  just  can’t possibly learn all  the  things  that  I  would  need  to  do  if  I was  going  to  do  everything  myself.

Tim: Okay  so  leave  it  to  the  experts.

James: Yeah  I  mean  I  don’t  think  that  the  top  CEO  of  you  know the  biggest  companies  in  the  world know  every  single job within  their  company.

Tim: No.

Tim: Yeah  okay,  anything  else  you  do  differently?

James: Well  I,  you  know,  its  take  more  of  my  advice  in  things  that I always  knew  to  be  true.

Tim: Would  you  take  action  quicker,  I  mean  you  are  pretty  quick action  taker  anyway  but  would  you take  an  action quicker know what  should  I  know.

James: I  have  always  taken  action  quickly,  I  am  not  a  full subscriber to  take  action,  to  take  action mantra,  I  would  argue that you need  to  take  the  right  action,  I  took  a  lot  of  wrong actions before  I  got this  and  I  would  say  I  would  pay more attention to  the  things  that  worked  and  tune  into them  faster rather than  you  know  I  accidently  discovered half  of  the business models  that  I  do  now,  five  years ago but  didn’t  do  them correctly  and  I  had  to  go  back and  revisit  them  later  -­‐  you know  I  could  have,  could have  done  really  well  with   few different  business models  but  I  just  didn’t  quite  get  it  right.

Tim: So  were  you  looking  to  other  people  for  solutions  back  then  or did  you  rely  on  yourself  to  …

James: Back  then  I  was  subscribing  to  a  lot  of  the  American information  because  they  were  the pioneers  and

Tim: Are  they  still?

James: No,  not  absolutely  not.  Sorry,  Americans!  But  you  know  the whole  country  is  in  turmoil because  they  thought  they were  in charge  and  they  thought  they  were  fantastic but they  are  not and what  has  happened  is  the  rest  of  the world  is  far more switched  on  now,  I  believe  Australia has extraordinary  good talent,  I  think  there  are  some good  marketers  in  the  UK, there  is  extremely  good marketers  in  some  of  the,  in  some countries  that  you wouldn’t  pick  -­‐  especially  in  the  Arabic nations, they have  extremely  good  scientific  brains  -­‐  they come  up with  great  solutions  and  in  fact  I  know  of  a group of affiliate  marketers  you  know  sales  people,  online commission  earning  sales  people,  who  can just  take  out any product  you know  within  a  week  they  can  dominate it  and they  are  coming  from  those regions.

Tim: Yeah  okay.

James: I  think  the  pioneer  American  gurus  have  had  their  best  days and  now  the  rest  of  the  market  is taking  over.

Tim: You  still  say  that  the  majority  of  the  stuff  that  you  see  online, at  least  I  see  online  is  American based.

James: Well,  you  might  think  so  but  I  think  a  lot  of  it  is  actually internationally  based  with  American accents  designed  for the American  audience.  I  know  of  several  Chinese people  who hire  American  voice over  artists  and  have American  style pages for  the  American  market.

Tim: Wow  really?!

James: Yes  they  are  really  digging  up  the  secret  box.

Tim: Oh  yeah!

James: Than  are  we  and  there  are  some  very  hot  marketers  from New  Zealand  who  are  some  of  the best  selling language products  on  Clickbank  market  place  and  the  best animal training  products  are coming  out  of  New  Zealand  now.

Tim: Why  is  that?

James: Because  America  got  sloppy!

Tim: So  animal  training  products  so  just  give  us  an  example  like which  product  in  animal  training product.

James: Well  like  Rocket  Training  or  St.  Stay.  Fetch…  you  know they are  coming  from  New  Zealand.

Tim: Okay  and  there  is  a  website,  information  products,  videos, books.

James: Time  Networks,  Yeah.

Tim: networks

James: Multi – million  dollar  businesses

Tim: Okay.  Well  tell  us  about  before  you  get  stuck  into  the  mind question  for  this  episode  which  is  the things  to avoid when launching  internet  marketing  business,  what are  the characteristics  of  successful internet  marketer that  you  have observed over the  years,  the  ones  that are  really  naive,  what characteristics  do  they  got?

James: Almost  all  of  them  are  very  good  at  selling,  that  might sound extremely  basic.

Tim: Everyone  is  like  just  gone  Oh  geez  that’s  not  me!

James: No,  well  you  know  I  think  you  have  to  be,  you  have  to understand  marketing  and  selling  and  in that communicate  in a  persuasive  way  to  motivate  people  to take  action  -­‐  and  if someone  is  rolling  their eyes  and saying  that  is  not  me,  well I will  just  say  you  are  not going  to  be  successful  online.  I am  going  to be  that bold  and  so  you  got  go  buy  yourself  a selling  or marketing  book  and  educate  yourself.  There  is no  shortcut  to  that  you  know  the  marketers  make  up  all the money  and  that is worth  noting  that  down. The technicians, the  professors  sitting  around  in the universities  they  might  be super  smart  but  they are to  being  extremely  well  educated but  they  are  not  rich.

Tim: Well  just  put  an  asterix  next  to  that  aside  except  for  the  boys at  Google!

James: Well  you  know  somewhere  down  the  line  …

Tim: Pure  engineers

James: They  must  have  figured  out  some  marketing,  they  have  got some  pretty  funky  branding  going on,  they  have figured it  out.  They  didn’t  have  a  big  launch  they  were just  like  you know,  I  think  Seth Godin  recently posted  that  Google  was mentioned  as  an  aside when  they  started  -­‐  but  I  think  you know occasionally  someone  comes  out  with  something  that is such a  game  changer  that  it  gets  attraction. Now  in Google case  they  are  still  managed  to  get  out  a website  and  you know  get people  engaged  and use their  product  so  I  think they  like  it  or  not  I  still think  that  they  have  marketed.

Tim: Well  Yeah  they  did  marketing  a  lot  on  just  the  product.

James: Amazing  product  you  see.

Tim: Yeah

James: It  has  got  to  do  a  lot  for  you  but  it  is  definitely  not  a  complete  solution.  It  is  more  about  the marketing  of  the thing  than  the  thing.

Tim: Yeah  okay  so  okay,  for  the  characteristics,  sales,  marketing, tenacity,  the  ability  to  see  an  idea  …?

James: No  I  don’t  think  that,  that  is,  I  don’t  think  that  is  super  important.  Sam  Walton  championed the  fact  that copying pays better  than  innovating.  You don’t  have to be an  ideas  guy  to make  it  online, you  just  have, if anything,  if  you  are a  little less  creative  then  it  will be easier  for  you  because  you  can see  what  other people are  already  doing  and  step  into  the market  from that  position  -­‐  so  one  of  the  big mistakes people make is  coming  up  with  a  great  idea  you  know,  in quotes  -­‐ and taking  this  great  idea  to the  market  and nobody cares  they  don’t  want  this  thing,  it  is not interesting  to them.  So  a  lot  of passion projects end up  by  flopping  so  it  is a  big  mistake.  In  one  of my filters  is  if  somebody  is  already doing  it  or not,  if no one  is  doing  it  I  won’t  even  start  the project  -­‐  that kills  it  for  me.

Tim: There  is  a  reason  …

James: There  is  a  reason  they  are  not  doing  it.

Tim: Yeah,  Yeah  okay.  Any  other  characteristics?

James: Characteristics  of  …

Tim: Of  a  successful  internet  marketer

James: Of  a  successful  internet  marketer,  well  I  think  they  have  a business  focus.  They  understand  the main  elements  of a business  and  you  know  there  is  a  few  ways  to  put this. One is  the  you  know,  they have  a  good understanding of the process  of the  marketing  where you  have  a prospect turning into  a customer  and  that customer  you  know spends  more things  more  often for high  profit  margins so  that  is how  they actually  end  up with  the  money  and the  other  elements  are that  they have  got  the corner stone  sorted  and  it  is  really well covered  in  Verne Harnishes  book,  The  Rockefeller Habits but  it  is  about systems  and people  and  cash flow and  one other  can’t remember,  execution  you  know  that sort  of  stuff.

Tim: Yeah  Yeah

James: So  if  you,  you  know  if  you  really  have  strong  grasp  of those then  an  internet  marketing channel,  remember  it  is   a channel not  a  business  -­‐  is  going  to  work  okay  for you  -­‐  but  you know  let’s face  it,  internet  marketing  has  the  word marketing in  the  name  of  it,  it  is  all  about  marketing.  This  is what  the field  is,  it  is  …

Tim: So  if  there  are  people  listening,  guys  who  are  not,  who  are going  you  know  what  not  sure  this  is  for me,  I  am  not into sales  or  marketing,  probably  go  and  buy  a  few  of Seth  Godin’s books.  They  are  going  to be  a  good  start to  understand marketing.

James: Yeah  I  know,  I  would  say  J.  Abraham’s  book  .

Tim: Yeah

James: Getting,  I  think  it  is  Getting  Everything  You  Can  Out  Of  All You  Got.

Tim: Yeah.

James: That  is  a  classic  book  and  when  I  met  with  J.  Abraham  he told  me  that  was  his  favorite  book that  he  has  ever written.

Tim: Okay,  he  has  written  a  few.

James: Well  he  wasn’t  the  most  popular  selling  but  it  was  his favorite  and  the  one  he  rated  the  best and  I  truly believe  it is worth  learning  and  if  I  reflect  back  on the  difference between  my  business  and other  people’s  business  it  is  that I had  a  much better foundation  in  business  and  selling  and marketing. And  I  just  don’t  think  you  can  substitute  that. Another good  resource would  be  Brian  Tracey’s Psychology Of  Selling.  Just  a,  it  is  a  classic  CD  set, get  it,  listen  to  it, learn  to  sell.  I  mean  everything in  life is  sales.  As  you  sell your  wife  for  marrying  you, you  sell  your  friends  on  going  to  a  particular movie;  you sell  the  cars salesmen  on  letting  you  have the  car  for  less  money.

Tim: You  know  about  that.

James: That  is  right,  I  mean  I  just  don’t  think  that  anyone  is  going to  be  worth  off  for  learning  that craft.

Tim: Yeah  too  good  point,  too  good  point  and  I  think  Yeah  there are  a  lot  of  people  who  think  oh  I  am not  a  sales man,  I hate selling  but  maybe  it  is  just  a

James: That  is  okay  just  be  ready  for  a  life  of  poverty!

Tim: That’s  right!

James: You  know  we  promise  to  be  direct  in  this  program  and  I am not  going  to  pretend  something isn’t  the  case,  you know in this  case  I  think  that  you  have  to  have  grasp  on marketing and  selling.  Selling is  not  bad  or  evil,  a  sale is  just  a change in situation  from  one  situation  to  a better  alternative  situation. That  is  what  a  sale  is  so people  only  buy  thing  if  they  are going to  be  better  off. If  it  solves  a  problem,  so you  should not  feel  bad  about that,  people  wont  to  buy  from  you,  it  is going  to  be better  off  so  you  are creating  value,  you  are helping people.

Tim: Yeah  fair  enough.  So  that  leads  in  to  what  are  the  things  to avoid  when  launching  internet marketing  career  because there  is a  lot  of  things  to  look  at  for  or  a  lot  of  things to  do  but  all sort  of things  to  avoid  and  things  to  avoid they  are  going to cost  you  money  and  it  cost  you  time and  it  cost  you all  sort  of things.

James: Okay,  well  step  one  is  I  think  let’s  all  agree  that  we  are going  to  treat  this  like  a  real  business.

Tim: Yeah.

James: And  that  means  you  may  need  to  see  somebody  to  get either  the  right  structure  set  up  and  I am  talking specifically about  your  accountant  and  perhaps  a  lawyer to  get  you  that structure.  I  think  one of  the  biggest mistakes  I  see  people doing when  they  start  is  they start  trading  in  their  own  entity and  I am  not  a  lawyer or  a  solicitor  so  I  am  certainly  not get biased but  you could  be  leading  yourself  to position  of exposure  you know  I  don’t  want  to  get  you  all  frightening however  if you  are going  to  trade online,  it  is  just  like trading in normal  life  you  know  you  may  someone  might  want  to sue you  or something  if you,  you  know,  for  bad transaction  or they  sell  grapes  or  something.  It  gets worth  having  a structure  behind  you  that  gives you  a little  more  protection and  also  when  you  go  step  up things  like merchant  facilities with  the  bank  or  you  want to  win  a contract  with  somebody they  are  going  to  look at your  company  or  your  business and perhaps  look  for references  or  history so  one  of  the fortunate things that I  did  earlier  on  is  I  setup  an  appropriate  business structure  to  do  business  you  know  in most countries there  is a  government  body  that  could  go  and  see  or look  up  their website  that  will  give  you heaps  of documentation  on  that  so I  really  like  to  get  the foundations  in  place  so  rather  than build  on the  sand, we  are  going  to  build on  solid  ground.

Tim: Yeah

James: Yes  that  is  step  one.

Tim: Well  those  are  the  things  to  avoid  to  avoid  to  remember  so that  is  one  thing  well  the  avoidance would  be  enough seeing  a structure,  don’t  avoid  it,  I  mean  sometimes they  can  be  like really.  I  hoping  for a  life  of  you  know, painless  life  and free and  easy  and  now  you  are  telling me  to  go  to  an  accountant, go to  a  lawyer  and  get  a concrete  foundation  and  but  avoid that  at  your  own risk.

James: Exactly  the  thing  to  avoid  there  is  just  you  know  setting  up too  quickly  in  the  long  entity  and one  thing  I  always teach  is start  with  the  end  in  mind  and  if  you  want  to sell  something  at  some  point,  it could  be  easier  if  it  is you  know entity name  then  in  your  own  name.  So  that is  something  to  avoid. Another  thing  to  avoid  is  and  this is  very  common  is  taking  in too  much  information.

Tim: Yeah  oh  Yeah.

James: I  can’t  think  of  a  single  student  that  I  ever  had  that  isn’t overwhelmed  with  email  and  the  first exercise  we  do  is we make  them  do  an  email  page  that  is  to  open  up a  new folder  or  label  and  send  every  single  email  to the  inbox  and this  is usually  thousands  and  just  dump them  in  to  that  and it  could be  you  know  for  later. Optional  step,  just  send people an  email, so  I  am  just doing  an  email  cleanse,  I have decided  not  to  read  all the  emails  in  my  inbox  so  if  you  did send  me something that  is  important  I might  be  reading  it  -­‐ that is  optional  but  in  any  case  start  from  scratch.  Just  get your  inbox  to  zero.

Tim:  and  I  think  probably  people  who  are  looking  to  enter  the internet  marketing  world  have  probably solved  that  for everything.

James: Oh  they  have  …

Tim: Everything  that  is  going  so

James: You  know  why  because  they  are  chasing  everything  for  free, free  this  free  that,  free  is  not free,  free  costs  you  time.

Tim: Yeah  and  why  it  is  heavily  you  know  that  I  know  personally like  I  am  looking  at  it  and  I  have purged  a  lot  of  email subscriptions  in  the  last  few  months  and  still  a  lot coming through  but  you  I  am  no worse  off  for  them  not coming through -­‐ you  know  there  is  and  you  realize that  you  know  is  there really  a couple  that  I  open regularly  and  after  that  you  know you think  you  are going  to  get  to  them  that  is  why there thousands  of them  in  there  because  …

James: Well  you  are  actually  obligated  to  read  it  in  your  mind  if it is that,  that  is  what  is  causing  you this  grief,  it  is over whelm. Every  time  you  subscribe  to  a  free something,  other  than  all our  free  reports of  course.

Tim: Of  course.

James: Because  they  are  valuable  and  we  don’t  send  many.

Tim: You  go  to  Freedom  Ocean  I  would  suggest  James  and  …

James: That  is  right  those  reports,  you  notice  we  don’t  send  them every  day  because  we  are  not trying  to  overwhelm  you.

Tim: No

James: But  the  thing  is  you  need  to  free  us  so  remember  every time  you  signup  for  a  report  or  at some  one’s  list  they are going  to  market  to  you  and  they  are  going  to use  every persuasion  and  selling device  available  to them  to  make  you take action  that  means  you  are going  to  be  compelled  to click  on things  and  buy  things and  it  is  going  to  cost  you  in the  long  run so  what  I do  is  I  set  up  a  special  filter  for other  marketers  email and  I  actually  make  it  go  to  a separate  folder  away from my inbox  and  I  look  at  it when  I am  ready,  when I  want  to  look  at  it  I  will  look  it  at.  I  will not  look  at  it when  they  want  me  to look at  it  because  if  I do  that, they  are  in  control  of  me  and  not  the  other  way around.  The  second  thing  is  as soon  as  you get  more than one  or  two  emails  from  someone  that  you  don’t like  or doesn’t  resonate  with you  or  you  feel  with  just having  a bit of a  lend  of  you  as  we  would  say  in  this fair  land  -­‐ unsubscribe.  As soon  as  you  unsubscribe you  are  freeing yourself  you know  in  the  future  and you  are  getting  one step closer  to  true  freedom.

Tim: Yeah  you  are  absolutely  right  and  we  don’t  need  it  all  -­‐   you know  I  think  at  some  point  too  you have  got  to  figure out  what  source  of  information  you  want  to  rely  on  and stick  with  it  and  just  Yeah  let go  the  rest.

James: So  you  don’t  need  many  and  I  will  declare  this  probably only  three  or  four  people  who  are actually  read  -­‐ who make it  into  my  in  box  and  I  am  receiving somewhere  between  20 and  40  emails  per day now  that  I  have  managed  to trim  it and  so  I  would actually  go  so  far  as  to  suggest  that  that  is the number  one  thing  that  stops  people  moving  forward in internet marketing.

Tim: So  avoid  signing  up  for  everything.

James: Avoid  signing  up  to  every  mail  and  their  dog’s  free  whatever you  don’t  really  need  all  that  stuff and  have  the good sense as  soon  as  you  realize  it  is  not  for  you,  or it  is  not  helping you  achieve  your  goal to unsubscribe and  don’t  apply there again.

Tim: Yeah,  good  advice,  I  would  also  suggest  avoid  trying  to  do things  that  you  are  really  not  excluding, we  touched  on that earlier  but  the  idea  of  actually  just  leave  it  to  the experts  and don’t  …

James: Yeah  leave  it  to  the  experts  so  Yeah  super  tips  you  are really  helping  people  get  sorted  out  so that  they  are avoiding just  setting  up  with  a  potentially  dangerous structure.  We have  stopped  them from  getting  the  billion emails  and sucking their  time  even  I  know  people  who literally  five  hours  a  day reading  through  their  emails and  there  is  something  I teach students  and  I  think  it is really  cool  that  is you  are  the  one that  are  reading  the emails  or  sending  the  emails.

Tim: Yeah.

James: And  I  know  which  one  makes  more  money!

Tim: Oh  yeah,  you  don’t  get  much  money  from  reading  emails, do you?!

James: No.

Tim: You  spend  money!

James: You  spend  money  and  just  suck  time  it  takes  energy.

Tim: Yeah.

James: You  know  what  it’s  like  -­‐  you  get  to  the  end  of  a  section on  the  computer  and  you  close  the window  browser and then there  is  another  one  under  it  so  you  close that  and  there  is another  one  and you  close  that and  then  you  close  that and you  close  that  and then  there’s  that  receipt  and  you’re  still half downloading  the  product  you  have  bought  and  you close the  other  window  and  then  you  get  to  the last  one,  that  is what  I  was  going  to  do  when  I  logged on  today!

Tim: Absolutely  and  just  remember  the  reason  the  show  is  called Freedom  Ocean  is  we,  because  it  is about  being  free and being free  of  emails  is  a  massive  one.  I  really  do believe  that  even when  they  are sitting  there  and  you say  I’m  not  going  to open them  -­‐  the  fact  that  they are  sitting  there  and  the  fact that you  are  subscribed  to everything  does  weigh  heavily.  There is just  something there  in  your  mind  that is  saying  I  know  they’re there!

James: You  got  to  keep  them  all  so  really  what  we  are  teaching  is you  know  inbox  relief  this  sort  of technique  of  just,  just

Tim: Yeah.

James: Getting  just  distressing.

Tim: What  else  should  you  avoid  in  launching  internet  marketing career?

James: Well  I  think,  I  think  you  know  let’s  put  some  scenarios about our  potential  listeners  here  you know.  If  they  are working for  someone  else  they  are  obviously  going  to  be  have to  careful  about  how they  go  about  their  business.  You know if this  is  a  moon  lighting  thing  or  starting  on  the side,  you  have to  draw  some  lines  as  to  what  you, what you  want  people  to find  or  not  you  know,  what  if  your employer  finds  your  website  and  he  says  listen  it  is your  job  is  on  the  line.  You  are going  to  have  to commit  to  me  or  commit  to  your  business  so  there  is that.  There  is  you  know  if  they  are  in  business  I think they  really  need  to  work  out,  how  valuable  the  internet potential  payoff  is  versus  there  real   business.  Whilst  the internet  is  very  leveraged  and  can  help  your  normal business  you  know  you  got  to still  tend  to  the  normal business  until your  internet  profit  centre  is  able  to  carry the  business  so  …

Tim: Yeah  and  if  they  are  moonlighting,  then  avoid  TV  and  avoid  all those  other  distractions.

James: That  is  optional  stuff.

Tim: Yeah.

James: People  say  to  me  I  had  you  have  time  you  know  well  gosh I  had  four  kids,  I  was  working  full time  job.

Tim: Two  dogs.

James: I  had  more  than  four  I  think.

Tim: Okay.

James: And  I  still  most  to  grow  my  business  to  six  figures  in  my spare  time  that  is  how  I  don’t  have  the time  to  watch TV, yes  -­‐  don’t  do  it.

Tim: Yeah,  that’s  an  interesting  one  -­‐  and  that  is  personal  choice but  the  reality  is  I  think  what  you  find is  when  you  do launching  to  this  area  of  internet  marketing  and  start developing  products  that  are  of real  interest  too,  you have  a  personal interest  too.  When  you  are  just  going to  sit  on  fire  you  know  on  the idea  of

James: You  know  you  couldn’t  stop  me  from  getting  home  and  on to  that  computer.  I  will  tell  you  the indicators,  the indicators are  when  you  wake  up,  you  are  suddenly  at your  computer before  you  brush your  teeth  or  out  of shower  you  get straight to  see  what  you  made  of  over night.

Tim: Yes

James: And  then  you  have,  when  you  get  home  from  your  day  job, you  fly  off  the  computer  you  know as  you  are  still taking  the tie  off  and  …

Tim: Yes,  there  are  a  few  marketers  I  know  that  have  got  a  little buzz  on  their  phone   which  indicates  a sigh  every  time it goes to  Cha-­‐Ching!

James: I  use  to  do  that  but

Tim: Got  a  bit  nosy

James: It  was  just  to  attain  what  would  happen  this  my  friends would  come  over  and  they  start  to build  up  resentment because  you  know  you  just  go  Cha-­‐Ching!  -­‐  because there  is  quite  periods  where  I make  a  sigh  every  few minutes  and  it actually,  I  don’t  think  it  can  happen  with gmail  which  is  good.

Tim: Yeah  okay,  probably  a  good  thing.  Yeah  but  I  am  not  saying people  stop  watching  TV  or  the gossipy  magazines  and having fun  but  the  reality  is  there  is  some  stuff  in  our lives  where you know  we could  be  being  more productive  as  opposed to  just and  if  you  are  going  to watch  TV  then  have  the  laptop on  and do  some  stuff.

James: Well  the  way  I  look  at  it  is  I  decide  to  sacrifice  some  TV time  for  a  couple  of  years.  So  I  never have  to  go  to work ever  again  for  the  rest  of  my  life.

Tim: Yeah  fair  sacrifice.

James: Yeah  and  I  went  from  one  extend  to  the  other.  In  my  last few  months  of  my  job  until  I  quit  I was  doing  my full day work  and  a  full  day’s  work  at  home.

Tim: Yeah

James: I  was  working  from  9:30  at  night  till  4  in  the  morning  and getting  up  again  at  7  for  the  last month  or  two  and  you know  I  was  surviving  on  a  minimum  possible  sleep  but I could  see  the  finish  line  I was  just  about  to  grab  it you know then when  I  quit  my  job  then  suddenly  it was  like  I  could still  spend six  or  seven  hours  on  my internet  business  …

Tim: But  you  had  that  other

James: I  but  I  had  the  other  8  hours  off

Tim: Yeah

James: I  can  literally  sleep  in  a  muck  around,  have  a  swim  in  the pool,  go  for  a  bike  ride,  have  coffee with  my  wife,  pick the kids  up  from  school,  have  dinner  and  then  start work  at  nine thirty  at  night  3  or  4 hours  to  twelve,  one o  clock  –  I’m  a bit of  a  night  owl.  I  have  done  my half-­‐day’s  work.

Tim: Yeah  do  our  listeners  have  to  go  through  I  am  going  to  say the  pain  you  went  through  clearly,  it wasn’t  -­‐   you were racing home  to  get  into  it  but  you  know  once  again I don’t  want people  turning  off this  idea  of  becoming an internet  marketer because  all  of  a  sudden  they are doing  their  8  hours  their  day job  and  then they have to  come  home  and  do  another  8  hours. I mean  clearly  …

James: What  we  are  talking  about  there  is  me  building  up  a  three hundred  thousand  dollar  year income

Tim: Yeah  replacing  that

James: For  my  internet  business,  if  I  was  earning  50  thousand dollars  a  year,  I  could  have  quit  work  a long  time before that.

Tim: Yeah

James: It  was  actually  fairly  easy  to  go  from  a  hundred  thousand dollars  to  two  hundred  thousand dollars  a  year  and  in the last hundred  and  fifty  thousand  happened  almost within  a  week, it was  super easy.

Tim: Why  is  that?

James: Because  you  learn  more  and  you  can  find  leverage  points that  you  can  tap  into.  I  actually  had an  apiphany.  I  had already  built  websites  for  people  and  I  had  this  ahh moment I  actually  went  back  to them  and  said  look would  you,  you know  I  built  the  website,  would  you  like me  to  help  you  get traffic and  they  both  said  yes  and they  went  on  a  monthly maintenance  program  and  it took  me  a  couple  of hours  to put together  this  deal which  was  over  six  figures  a  year  so  you know  it  was literally  a  few  hours for  me  to  make  it  happen and  that was  the  difference  between  me  working  and  me  not working  and  it was  always  there  it  was  like  Dorothy  in the Wizard  Of  Oz,  if  I’d  thought  of  it  a  bit  sooner,  I could  have done  it six  months  before.

Tim: Yeah,  well  that  is  interesting  you  know  in  itself  to  sort  of identify  things  that  are  run  in  front  of your  nose. Sometimes you do  or  you  need  some  else  to  tap  on the  shoulder  or  you  just need  a  moment  to sit  back and  have  a  look  at  what  a  bit you have  created.  That book  by  the  guy’s  from  37  signals REWORK -­‐  they  talk about  bi-­‐products  and  sometimes  we miss these.  In  all our  work  whether  we  are  selling products  or  services  or whatever  we  are  doing,  we  actually  are  creating  bi-‐products  sometime  and  I  think these  are  the  examples of  saw  mill.  Where  the  saw  mill  chops  the  wood,  sends it  off  to  a  the builders  but the  bi-­‐products  of  doing that is  saw  dust,  wood  chip  and  you  know  some  smart  guy in  the  wood  yard  at some point  a  hundred  years  ago, thought  you  know  we  can  actually  use  that  in  concrete and  we  can  use that  for  fire  blocks  and you  know  it  is no  different  to  our  businesses  where  we  are  creating these,  these bi-­‐products  and  it’s  just  a  matter  of recognizing  them  and  then  turning  them  into  revenue streams.

James: Yes  well  I  sort  of  like  the  BDA  method.

Tim: That  is,  that  is

James: You  know  as  soon  as  you  push  record  you  are  creating  a bi-­‐product.

Tim: Yeah

James: And  you  know

Tim: Go  back  to  the  tree,  episode  2,  before  during  and  after  is what James  is  referring  to  where  he  says BDA  method

James: Yeah

Tim: It  is,  we  will  talk  about  it  more  or  show  often  but  it  is  the notion  of  value  and  time  and  time  and  do you  want  to be paid by  the  hour  or  …

James: One  of  the  best  bi-­‐product  stories  that  I  can  think  of  is the byproduct  of  beer

Tim: Yeah

James: They  take  this,  the  yeast  extract  and  they  turn  it  into delightful  spread  called  Vegimite

Tim: They  do  too

James: Yeah  so  if  you  are  not  from  Australia,  make  sure  you  check out  veggie  mayo,  put  it  on  nice  and thick

Tim: They  will  never  talk  to  us  again.  I  saw  someone  eating Vegimite  with  avocado  the  other  day  …

James: They  have  no  idea  what  we  are  talking  about

Tim: They  won’t,  they  won’t  but  interesting  it  is  a  really  interesting topic.  It  is  a  real  eye  on  the  concept of  bi-­‐products

James: Okay  so  let’s  step  it  back.  I  am  scared  depends  off everyone  so

Tim: Yeah  if  anyone  still  listening

James: Yeah  if  you  are  still  listening  just  hear  this,  I  have community  of  hundreds  of  members  who  are able  to take  up this new  art  and  turn  it  into  income  and  I count  a  dozens of  students  who  have  quit  their jobs and in  many  cases  it has  happened way  faster  than  it  did for  me  and  that  is because  they  are already  using  the same  information  that we are  talking  about  now so it  never  has  to  be  as  I  had  it  to answer  your  question directly,  you  don’t  need  to  perhaps  to make  three hundred  thousand dollars before  you  quit  your job.  For most  people  I  think  the  average  wage  in  our country, somewhere  around 50  or  60 thousand  dollars  -­‐ that is more  than  achievable  for  most  people  you  know probably within twelve  months  of  starting  from scratch with  the  right information  and  for  some  people  I  have seen  them do  within weeks  you  know  and  that  is unusual  but certainly  possible

Tim: Okay  absolutely  we  don’t  want  to  scare  too  many  people  off, we  just  want  to  make  it  real,  because as  we  touched on episode  one  as  a  lot  of  people  offering  this  server bullet

James: Yeah  the  special  push  that  button

Tim: Yeah

James: it  will  happen  for  you

Tim: big  red  pill  and

James: but  that  is  how  they  make  their

Tim: that  is  how  they  make  their  money

James: that  is  how  they  make  their  money  right  but  we  very  clear on  that

Tim: Yeah  absolutely

James: now  if  you  want  to  sell  the  magic  button  you  will  get  rich but  it  is  not  a  sustainable  business model

Tim: James,  coming  at  the  end  of  episode  4  we  have  been  saying over  the  course  of  a  number  of episodes,  we  will  give people the  opportunity  to  start  to  access  some  of  our resources  and they  can  sign up  to  our  website  and  get infrequent updates from  us  and  lists  and  to  dos  and  all sorts  of  goodies anywhere else  you  suggest  they  go right  this  minute  or  shall  we keep the powder  dry until another episode,  while  they  absorb  some  of the sort of  mind  set  stuff  that  we  are  still  talking  about

James: well  I  think  in  keeping  with  this  episode  I  would  rather  set  a homework  task

Tim: oh  nice

James: you  know  I  am  going  to  challenge  our  listeners  to  go  to their  inbox  and  purge  it,  be  ruthless

Tim: ready  for  a  really  good  email

James: because  you  know  I  am  going  to  say  less  in  more  out  okay the  only  way  they  are  going  to  be producing  and implementing  these  tips  is  by  having  less  stuff,  less noise  in the  inbox  -­‐  so  even  though  it sounds  you know  I  am  not trying to  sell  anything  here  I  am  selling you  the  only  idea that  you  can  be  in charge  of  you activity  and  I  would  like you  to  come back  to  the  next episode  with  a  clear  inbox and  ready to  get  stuck  into the  next  chunk  of  information

Tim: Yeah  that  is  great  homework,  not  too  hard

James: well  this  is  homework  that  could  really  change  the  rest  of your  year  and  it  is  a  habit  if  well developed  will compound your  income.  There  is  no  doubt  about  it. I have  never  met anyone  who  I  have helped  with  this who  hasn’t  had  a tremendous  increase  in  productivity because  they  are  simply not reading  emails,  they  are actually  doing  stuff.

Tim: alright  well  that’s  great  homework.  Thanks  James anothercontent  rich  episode  of  Freedom  Ocean I  will  have  to  say.  So until  next  time  we  will  see  you  later

James: see  you  later.



  1. Hey Guys, will have my homework handed in by midnight. No excuses this time that the dog ate it. Another great podcast!

  2. I have been absolutely ruthless with my emails this week – I am lucky that I have pretty much kept my inbox to one page however I have been slack on subscribing from many of trash newsletters that are just full of get rich quick noise. Today I have no emails in this inbox – it feels amazing – now onto creation.
    James, thanks again for sharing all your hard earned knowledge, since hearing you in Melbourne and listening to all the podcasts, you are having very powerful impact on me and my business already.

  3. I’ve been working on the ‘Inbox Zero’ project for a while now, to have James reiterate this as part of the appropriate mind set is a nice reminder.
    I think the pod-casting model could wait for a few more shows.
    Why don’t you create a Survey Monkey survey to gauge the opinion of the listeners on the length of the show notes? 🙂

    Thanks for sharing this content.

  4. Almost 3 years on, what are your favourite methods for #inboxzero and #GTD? Maybe an episode in it? I am a big fan of the secret weapon dot org.

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