#26 Creating an evergreen product that sells while you sleep.

One of our guiding principles is not to hype things up. HOWEVER(!), in this unbelievably practical episode, there really is business-building  info that would normally only ever be accessible in high-level, high  priced products.
So (enough hype) … As you probably, Tim’s been running a live 8-week marketing Masterclass. It’s now coming to an end and he’s got all this  amazing content.
The big question is “What to do with it?”In this episode James explains EXACTLY what to do with it.

In fact, using the step-by-step process we go through, you’ll discover how to take any recorded information and turn it in to a product that you can sell while you sleep. You gotta love that!


Products & Resources

Have you seen the Freedom Ocean Internet Marketing Products page? Everything we recommend lives here.


TIM: Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Freedom Ocean podcast, Australia’s favorite internet marketing podcast. I’m one of your hosts, Tim Reid. And sitting virtually across from me–well, I’m in Melbourne and he’s in Sydney—is James Schramko. How are you, mate?

JAMES: Really good, Timbo! Really good!

TIM: You would be itching to get onto that Fast Web Formula stage, I’m thinking.

JAMES: Well, it’s starting to become a reality. It’s only about 3 weeks away, and so I’m doing a lot of preparation right now.

TIM: Yep! We got a good discussion about it yesterday and you have got no shortage of content. (laughs)

JAMES: Yeah. Well, you know, a lot goes on especially given the structure of our business that is mostly me here in the engine room coming up with stuff and then there’s the team helping me implement it all, but we cover so much ground. We have a lot of different businesses and we just get through so much material; it’s how do I condense that coal into diamonds in an hour or two long segments to get the best point across. So I’m putting a lot of work into how I can package the message in the least amount of information possible.

TIM: Which is a challenge of communication, communicators worldwide is to cut to the chase. We’ve got short attention spans anyway, and people want the gold better, they want that diamond in the rough.

JAMES: Yeah, and a big mistake we all make when we’re making information products is that we think that more is better.

TIM: Ah, yeah!

JAMES: And in fact, I really value information that comes in a concise format that is able to translate the point. Sometimes it could be just a simply blog post, just 2 or 3 line blog post or a short email can point to a nice resource or make a point and just as much impact as it would take in an hour long presentation. I find myself now watching webinars and presentations from other people and I just want to hit something, it makes my blood boil how slow and frustrating the whole canned sales pitch thing around this information delivery. Just give me the 5-minutes worth of—

TIM: It’s really interesting balance because I agree, and having lived in a world of communications for most of my working life, I know less is more and it is about identifying that most important thing that you can share with your prospects in order to get them to either to buy or to interact, to engage. But then there’s that balance of like, “Oh! What if I were to cut everything out and cut to the chase?” Some people, I think, feel as though they might not be giving true value, so there’s that balance, isn’t there?

JAMES: Yeah. Another thing is filtering the customers. I’ve decided, for my businesses, we mainly deal with switched on people who get it. We’re not dealing with dummies. So we’ve actually purposely, we’re not putting a huge ramp-up to our information at this point. We really just cut to the meat. If you look at most of my sites, they’re straight to the point. And we have a straight to the point customer and we love that market segment, that sort of more intermediate, they get it, they’re not wasting a whole heap of time on support. They get it. They know what they want. They take it.

TIM: Yep! Which is a surprise and for those who are listening for the first time, James has a live event coming up in about 3 weeks’ time called Fast Web Formula 3 and it is an event for those who are keen to make a living online. And I was surprised to see that there was a large percentage of those attending who rate themselves as beginners. So that’s kind of good, in a way. It’s not a high-end kind of “not going to understand what we are talking about.” There’s a lot of people jumping onboard and wanting to create that life of freedom.

JAMES: Well, of course. And really, the challenge and exciting thing for me is how do I take 6 and a half years worth of information and just put it into the most essential bits. I mean, those people are so lucky! I wish I could have gone to a Fast Web Formula 3 when I was brand new. And it was an event kind of like that that I went to, although it wasn’t really as user-friendly, but that’s where my huge shift points come when I go to a live event. That’s beyond question.

TIM: Yeah, I agree! And you’ve got to be open. You’ve got to realize it’s not just the content that’s being delivered onstage at live events, it’s the mixing with other like-minded people, it’s the networking, the making of contacts. It’s not about sitting there laboriously taking notes. I occasionally watch people at these events and they’re just madly tapping away at their Macbook and trying to consume everything. But sometimes you’ve just got to sit back and let the information find you.

JAMES: Yeah. Well I hope people don’t think this is just a huge pitch thing because I didn’t plan this, but I want the main points to come across and that is there’s a huge question mark around how much content do you need to have when you put in together information products, and that’s going to be part of our topic today. And the other thing is, as educating ourselves how do we consume information. Knowing your consumption preferences can help you make good choices as to what you invest in and how you consume it. So I just got about 7 or 8 books from Amazon this morning, which this would happen once or twice a week. And I will now find a comfortable chair later this afternoon and I’ll just rip into the bits that I want out of those books. I know my consumption patterns, make sure you know yours and find the right sort of information for in that. So what are we talking about today, Timbo?

TIM: James, I’m glad you asked. Now, this is very interesting. I’m wondering how technical this is going to get, but we’ll soon find out. So as you know and as many of our listeners will know, I put together an online marketing communications master class. We covered the development of that and how I got it into a position to promote it in a previous podcast episode, so you can go back and have a listen to that. I am in an 8-week master class. I am into coming up, this week is session 6 and I’m looking at the back-end member section and I have just had the most wonderful a-ha moment everytime I look into it now going, “My goodness! There is such a richness of content there! Such quality content for the small business owner and for who’s wanting to improve their online presence via marketing. And it’s not because I’ve put together the last 5 sessions. I’ve been joined by some absolutely fantastic marketing specialists including you, Mike Rhodes, I’ve got Jen Sheahan this week, Kerry Finch has been on. It’s just been an amazing amount of content that’s sitting there and the worst thing I can do is get to week 8, say thanks everyone for attending, master class is over, go and implement it, because there’s information that’s sitting there that needs to be shared with others. So what I wanted to talk about today was the process of taking that back-end membership site and turning it into an evergreen product.

JAMES: Yeah. It was something I suggested to you at the beginning.

TIM: Correct.

JAMES: So if you did nothing more, at the very worst case scenario, you’ve now got a way for you to develop an income by hosting events. So that’s a good start. You’ve already got paid upfront to educate your customers and you’ve no doubt built great relationships with the experts you’ve been partnering with, and that will provide you affiliate opportunities down the track, if not already. So there are a few revenue strains. But this part, this leverage part is the most exciting part because this is truly the one that pays you while you sleep. Once you set this thing up as an automated cash machine, it will sell for you, whether you’re there or not. So let’s talk about steps to turn this into an information product that can remain up. Are you ready?

TIM: Yeah! Absolutely, I am! And what I might do for listeners is if you go to the show notes of this episode, I’ll put a screenshot of what the product looks like in the back end of my Nanacast. What’s the terminology, James? At the back end of my Nanacast site?

JAMES: I’d call it a membership area.

TIM: Yeah. Yeah, okay. Basically what you’re going to see, for those who can’t go and access the show notes while they’re listening, is Session 1, the video, summary of who spoke, the points that were covered, the ability to download the video to download the slide decks and download any exclusive additional interviews that I’ve included along the way. And then you’ll see that, then the screen just keeps scrolling down. Session 2, session 3, session 4, etc. So that’s what you’re going to see and I’ll put a screenshot on it. So step 1, James?

JAMES: Yeah, well, you know, we’ll cover this bit about packaging. Firstly, you get some feedback from your current participants and just work out what the strengths of this course actually are, especially success stories because you want to gather some testimonials and at the very least, just profile your very best customer so that it helps you identify who your best target audience is for this product.

TIM: Yeah, and I’ve already—you know what, that’s just been happening. That’s been happening naturally. At the end of every session I’ve been getting the most wonderful comments and also some of the students have been sending emails, so already—

JAMES: Here’s a tip: get them to type it in into the chat pad at the webinar so that you can get your webinar transcript, so now you have all your testimonials in print.

TIM: Yep! Gotcha!

JAMES: At the end of the webinar, so you’ll write, “Could you just give me some feedback about this? Especially something I could print on the sales page when this thing’s finished?” And then you of course edit that last part out of the module. And now your GoToWebinar will give you a transcript of each event and it will actually have their words and their names, so you’ve got a hard copy, in case anyone ever wanted to challenge you on the legitimacy of the testimonial. Okay, then you decide if you want to rename the package. If it’s got the most appropriate name because sometimes you end up with a slightly different product than what you started with.

TIM: Okay, Yep!

JAMES: And now, I just want to give you some context. I’ve just done two master classes and I’ve already converted one last week, doing these processes, and I’m about to do another one next week. So I’m right in this phase. It’s very good timing.

TIM: Just tell me, with the renaming, because every single video starts with a slide and the audio says, “Mate, welcome back to the online marketing communications master class.” So if I then go and rename it, welcome back to the small business marketing online webinar series, there’s a bit of sort of losing the consistency. Does that matter?

JAMES: Not really because you can use a technique that I call veneering. And that’s—you put this product inside another product. So you could actually come up with Timbo’s Marketing Extravaganza and that includes X, it includes Y, and you’ll also get 8 weeks’ worth of content from my exclusive online marketing master class. You see, one of the things is you’re not doing live anymore so you have to take the live connotations out and then there’s an interpretation around master class, whether that’s good or bad. I’ll quite often change my thing from, say, Super Affiliate master class, I might now call it Super Affiliate Coaching Program. So anyways, it doesn’t mean you have to do it. I’m just saying it’s an option if you wanted to. I’m doing it with my pay per click one it started off as a Silver Circle master class where I had an expert in pay per click, and it comes back to the market as Super Fast PPC. So we put a Super Fast PPC animated slide in front of every video as we load it to the membership. We rename it in Nanacast, so we just actually, literally, rename the line item, send out the slides and the animation all match up and then we can put up a brand new domain, Super Fast PPC, and then we’ll put a sales video to there. So we’ll actually convert the original video that we used to sell the master class into a new video. That’s one of the steps coming up.

TIM: Okay. Gotcha! Well, on step 3.

JAMES: Alrighty! So now you load all the content to your membership. So if you have it already, it sounds like you have—

TIM: I have! Yep!

JAMES: You just load the videos up each week and the pdf’s and mp3’s. You convert them into mp3?

TIM: I’m not, but I have plans to further repurpose that, so there’s no mp3’s at the moment. And I’ve broken one of the rules here, but I’ve got to say, I just could not get the formatting of the video as you were talking about whether an m4v, so the video’s at the moment are .mov’s.

JAMES: How are you streaming them?

TIM: You just hit play and they play. Or you can download.

JAMES: Alright. So they won’t work probably, unless people have a Quicktime plugin on their Windows PC’s. You’re going to have serious usability and service problems with that.

TIM: Yeah, I knew that and it was just like (laughs). Well, at the moment—

JAMES: I’m just telling you that as an experience to product developer. The only way you get that automated, making income while you sleep thing is when you take care of support issues before they happen. And you’ve just got to run with me on this. You will have to convert so that they stream for the majority of the users without having to put in a support ticket.

TIM: I’ll tell you what happened because I’m sure listeners are interested, but I don’t want to get stuck in the detail. I know it has to be fixed at some point, but having the .mov, I haven’t had any kickback from the students yet. I know I will when I go to a broader audience. The problem was getting it to a .m4v and getting it into the right—what is the word here?—like screen encodings, screen resolution. It was just—

JAMES: Well, here’s a handy tech tip, okay? This is really simple. You use Handbrake as your encoding software. It’s free, it works on PC or Mac, and if you tick web optimized for that, it will encode your video and it will cut out any black lines automatically. So whether that’s on the side or the top or the bottom, it will actually chop it out and render it in the same size as your input without the black lines.

TIM: Yeah? I must look at Handbrake. Look, I know that’s something I need to fix and definitely will—

JAMES: The step that we’re on is loading the membership area with the appropriate content. And that will be streaming format of your video, and my suggestion would be to have one multi-player because you do have EZS3 and the one multi-player will allow you to have one window, same as Traffic Grab, same as my Fast Web Formula streaming files that are in the Fast Web Formula membership. You just give them on player instead of having to scroll down 100-page long thing. And you’ll find it’s easier for them to consume.

TIM: So you mean by that like having literally one video screen that plays all 8 sessions, which are on average—no?

JAMES: Yep, absolutely!

TIM: Okay, because that would make about, oh, probably about 20 hours of content going through one screen.

JAMES: I’ve got that for my live events. Fast Web Formula 3 recordings will be the same. The Traffic Grab, there’s 9 hours, I think, of content and they’re all in one player. And they just click from one video to the next. I’ve got both my master classes, have got the same one player setup. The best thing is after each event, all I have to do is load the content to Amazon S3, create a player in eZs3 and then just drag and drop it into the multiplayer. So it’s actually quite easy from an administration perspective.

TIM: So it’s actually an option in eZs3 to have a multi-player, which is like one player that just plays video after video after video.

JAMES: Exactly. And I believe that’s the most important feature of that entire software application. That is its advantage over the free players or the one-time video player purchases that you can make. The eZs3 advantage is the multi-player and I love it! And my customers love it. I got so much good feedback around it from Traffic Grab that I will continue to use a multi-player, and it’s very customizable in terms of colors and size.

TIM: I’ll have to have a look at that because one of the other things that I’ll be doing is because probably in the end I’ll have 10 sessions, but I have 8 individual sessions covering very specific aspects of online marketing communications and I wanted to also offer them as individual products. So I guess putting them into a multi-player is one track I go down and then having them as individual offers as well is another track, yeah?

JAMES: Sure! We’ll talk about that. It’ll come up in segmentation. So the main point here is loading all your content to the membership area in a way that’s going to reduce customer support. So I’ve tried the one where I have many pages, a topic per page or episode. I’ve tried drip-fed released content. I’ve tried separate players. By far and away, the most effective solution that I found is I have one membership page so that when they login as one page, it just eliminates choice to have a multi-player and then a list underneath it of everything they can download all in one page. So that’s been my most effective format.

TIM: Cool!

JAMES: So the next thing is take your screenshots of your membership area of what people are going to get so that you could put that on a Frequently Asked Questions page or use it in your Order page so that you can show people what they’re going to get. And I’ll tell you why you want to do that. It, again, is going to cut down questions, you know, what do I get? Is this live training, is it a course? And lately I’ve been doing a lot of split testing on refund versus no refund and would you like to know the result? I can get higher conversions without offering a refund. And that’s because I really asked them to check before they purchase that it’s right for them and see what they’re getting and ask any questions they like at our support center before they order. And during that process, we get a really high conversion and no refunds. And when we offer a refund, we automatically start getting people asking for refunds. It’s the strangest thing. And the conversion is no better.

TIM: But the whole offering of a refund which has been in internet marketing parlance for so long, probably forever and a day, you know? 100 percent refund and then some and all these other stuff and you keep what we gave you, but in doing so, it almost raises a certain amount of fear. Maybe this isn’t as good as it should be so they’re offering refunds. That kind f makes sense, that split testing you’ve just—

JAMES: Well, I don’t want finicky buyers. I believe in my products and support them. I mean, we offer free coaching with our products. We go far and away in service compared to other vendors. So we use that to our advantage as well. I’d rather coach someone out of a whole than send their money back. Okay, so take your screenshots, you’ve got all your resources, you’ve decided what to call the thing. You’ve added any appropriate design work that needs to be done to the start of the slides or an animated slide. I find the animated logo is really effective. I did it with Traffic Grab, you can see it on every one of the Traffic Grab video.

TIM: You really love animated logo’s and the big sound effect.

JAMES: Yep! It just anchors back in that learning state that when people look at the next video, they’re brought back into the product to really concentrate. I think it’s a learning device, but it also builds the value in the product. It seems like a more impressive product because that’s the sort of impact you get when you go to the cinemas and you get the advertising thing or the start of every movie, the Dolby thing.

TIM: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!

JAMES: It just draws you into that entertainment part—

TIM: Where do you get them done, James? There is a website somewhere, isn’t there, that you can by them from maybe for 20 or 30 bucks and putting your own content, isn’t that right?

JAMES: Don’t know. I’ve never used those. We generate them all in-house.

TIM: Okay.

JAMES: We do do them for other people. We have Superfastvideos.com and we can take any logo and animate it. But anyway, I didn’t raise it for that point. I just wanted to say that production values are going to be differentiated for you versus your competitors and that’s also going to allow them to charge more. So if you increase the production values on the content, it’s going to help you sell it. It’s also going to reduce refunds or angry emails. And I’ll also say, while we’re at it, the format of the content. If you can possibly go with the 16 x 9 instead of 4 x 3, it’s going to look a lot more professional. But that’s a decision you need to make when you’re creating the slides in the first place.

TIM: Yep!

JAMES: Right. So now you’ve got to decide what you want to charge for this new product. So you’ve already solved the first product and you’re probably going to use the same order button from your membership. You just got to change the name, the price and the affiliate payout and then make sure it’s available for affiliates to sell and regenerate that sales button.

TIM: Okay. Yes, I’m getting to the point of price. I mean, clearly the value of being on a master class was the ability to interact live with me and the presenters, so the price then comes down from that. And how do you…do you split test? Is there a price—the master class itself was $995. Do you go half? How do you determine what its price?

JAMES: Well, again, you have look at how good the content is that you’ve created. Was it all a pitch? Was it all content? How does it compare to other things in the market or other things that your experts sell, because that’s another way to gauge value. And then you’ve got to come up with a price that you feel—so for ours, we would charge $1,000 for live master class. Generally it’s going to end up around the $399 mark. But the other question is what else can you include or how can you bundle it with another membership or something like that, just to increase the value of it?

TIM: It’s funny, I’m looking at the price now of $995 for being part of the live master class. It was far too cheap, so when you said, “Okay, look at the value of what people are getting. Whatever price it’s going to be, it’s going to be exceptional value, so it’s interesting. It kind of reminds me, having done it over halfway through, how I should have reconsidered the pricing of the stuff, but that’s okay. Everyone’s happy!

JAMES: It’s always good to let your first members win because then we’re taking a risk on you as well.

TIM: Correct!

JAMES: Now, it was your first time, I’m taking a risk on you, you didn’t know how it’s going to go. It’s okay charging too little in the beginning and people used to be able to hire me for $700 a month to coach them and build their internet business. So my business partner for Super Fast Results, Andy, hired me for $700 a month and those days are long gone. And he got great value. He’s ended up with a million dollar business from it.

TIM: Best $700 you’ve even spent!

JAMES: Exactly! So it’s okay. My grandfather used to say, “Leave a little bit in it for the next guy.”

TIM: (laughs) Leave a lot of—

JAMES: That’s okay.

TIM: Yep!

JAMES: So we’ve adjust the pricing, we now adjust the affiliate things. Remember to do that because that can kind of suck if you forget that part, you might actually be paying out as much as you make or more.

TIM: I want you to just revisit that, adjust the affiliate thing, what do you mean?

JAMES: Originally when you’re selling this, you probably have an affiliate payoff?

TIM: Yep!

JAMES: Just remember to reduce that if you’re going to reduce the price. But now that it’s not a live service. Now that it’s an electrical product, you might get a higher payout for affiliates as a percentage.

TIM: Okay.

JAMES: So in the beginning, I think you might charge a thousand and pay the affiliate something like 250, so that’s roughly 25 percent. So if you’re selling it for $399 and then fully it’s a fully electronic product, depending on whether it’s coaching element or not, then you might have an increase in percentage, you might have a 35 percent or 40 percent or 50 percent commission for affiliates, depending on how strong your marketing is.

TIM: Yeah, it’s interesting. I mean, given it was the first one, there were quite a lot of sunken costs, and will continue to be, to get this into positions. So anyway, that’s a decision to be made and—

JAMES: What’s a sunken cost?

TIM: Cost incurred to get videos uploaded to—I didn’t do any, I haven’t uploaded any of the video costs. Obvious Mike, the fellow you introduced me to, to get videos uploaded to
Nanacast to get the whole back-end Nanacast membership setup. I mean, as I’ve said before on the show, not for the faint-hearted. And I could have spent hours and hours and hours and you and I did spend a couple of hours. You know, I still don’t find Nanacast easy. That’s the honest reason. I have to pay someone to do it.

JAMES: You just focus on the things you’re better at, whether that’s loading videos or, in this case, not. Just focus on maybe marketing the master class, getting affiliates, doing traffic, generating activities so that you can pay off your costs faster. Focus on—

TIM: So focus on what I’m good at is a good thing because as I’ve said before, the technical stuff can be a real blockage. Alright, reduce affiliate payoff. What’s the next step, James?

JAMES: Well, you’ve done your pricing, you’ve done your affiliate, now you make sure you get a sales button that reflects the new pricing and make sure that’s on the sales page.

TIM: Yep! Okay, what else is on that sales page? A nice video?

JAMES: That’s what you’re going to do. You’ve got to take the original video and you now have to edit the video. I just take the same video that I used to sell the master class, but I opened it up in Screen Flow and I chopped out any reference to live using edit—ripple delete is my best friend—and if you need to put a call out or text block over something that’s on the screen, just whack it up there. Just add the text thing. So if you said “Live class starts next Monday,” or something in the video, you could chop that out. Now if it was just in text, then you could put a new text block over the old one that says, “Order instantly below,” or whatever.

TIM: Yep!

JAMES: So you can repurpose that first video. Since you put a lot of work into using something like that sales video profit formula that we talked about a few episodes ago. It’s going to have most of the devices you need in it already. So I did that for my Super Affiliate master class. I just went and edited the original video and took out any reference to live and now it’s selling super affiliate training.

TIM: I quite like the idea of…given the master class always intended it to be good, now I just think it’s absolutely tremendous. I quite like the idea of doing at home a new video, which I wouldn’t do that every time. But given it’s my first one, I feel as though there’s probably quite a bit I could share but I didn’t share in the original sales video.

JAMES: Yeah. So this is a matter of working out how far you’ve come and how much you can improve on the first one. In my case, my sales video’s worked really well in the beginning. For my master class, we sold 60-something spots, so it was particularly successful. So I don’t want to mess with that. I just wanted to tune it. And we’ve already started selling the recording, so they’re working really well too.

TIM: And you probably create those videos knowing, you know, I didn’t think about the back end when I created that sales video. I was just focused on the live master class. You’re creating those video’s knowing at the end of that you’re going to be using this as a sales video that’s going to be evergreen.

JAMES: Yeah. And most of my sales video’s have similar elements. The next thing you want to do—and you should try this—is you should set up a split test. You would touch your original video, edited versus your new, improved, think-you-can-outdo-it video. You may be surprised at the result.

TIM: And talk to me about split testing because I reckon that’s an episode in itself, so without—

JAMES: Without being technical, you go to the visual website optimizer, you choose a split URL test and it lets you put in your sales page, it lets you put in an alternative sales page, which is just a second sales page, and then you tell it which is the success page that people go to once they’ve ordered and it will work out for you which version sells more.

TIM: Cool!

JAMES: Okay, next thing. You announce this whiz bang product to the marketplace, to by announce I mean put in your auto responders for any other products that you have to cross promote, put it in your blog, Facebook it, stick it in your signature file, in forms or your emails. So you could put in your emails, Timbo, and you say, “Online Digital Marketing master class recording available.”

TIM: This is the fun part! This is actually marketing the marketing master class.

JAMES: Yeah! That’s where you make the money. If you want to go for gold, if you really want to play with conversions, stick a live chat button on there.

TIM: Oh yeah?

JAMES: There’s a few reasons why that’s a good idea. The main reason is you can see who’s on the site, where they came from, so that’s really good to know how they actually got there, whether they searched Google or whether they clicked on a link somewhere else—

TIM: By actually asking them?

JAMES: No, it just shows you every single visit.

TIM: Yep!

JAMES: And the other reason you want to do it is if you do actually have a few live chats, it will give you some transcriptions of people asking you questions about the product, which is not I’ve put back into sales copy, and that’s the most powerful aspect of it.

TIM: What’s the software, James?

JAMES: I just use Live Chat Inc.

TIM: Well, that’s just a little bit of software and that it sits there that people can literally chat through a question. And if you’re there, fantastic! What if you’re not there?

JAMES: Well, they can actually click on the Send a message and it will go to Zen desk, it integrates with Zen desk.

TIM: Right. Nice.

JAMES: Now, you need to have a support desk if you’re selling products. I’ve already covered this before, but you actually have to have a support desk. You can’t run a business via inbox.

TIM: Like Zendesk?

JAMES: Love Zendesk!

TIM: Okay. That’s a good one! I like that one. I love the idea of getting information from people as they’re looking around the site and getting clear on the questions they’re asking and then address those questions on the sales page so that you don’t get them again.

JAMES: Yeah, well I taught this to a bunch of copywriters at a high priced event and I’m telling you that for us to be telling you this stuff on a free podcast is ridiculous.

TIM: Love it!

JAMES: Okay.

TIM: That summarizes a lot of what we cover in Freedom Ocean.

JAMES: Really, we should be charging—

TIM: Well, we get a lot of emails and even go to Facebook and you’ll see people saying thank you, you should be charging so…anyway, we need to—

JAMES: Comments as a reward, wouldn’t it? Let’s get some nice comments. Let’s now talk about the next step, which is—I do suggest we put together a press release. It’s a good time to do a press release. You’ve got genuine news because it wasn’t available before.

TIM: Yep!

JAMES: And in your case, it’s not hard to come up with an angle. Former advertising exec opens up new medium for education platform with reduced expense. Now, you’re basically saying to people they can get $600,000 a year ad exec for $600 bucks.

TIM: Well, how about access to some of Australia’s top marketers! Forget the ad exec, but you know, yeah, that’s not hard. It is not hard to get an angle for this little puppy.

TIM: Alright, mate! Step 30. Oh, I’ve got 30, you probably know what you’re up to.

JAMES: Well, you can now decide which parts of the course is the strongest, the ones you get the most feedback that would stand in their own and drop them over to the side as a little—you could use them as either freebies or very low priced teasers or you could sell them outright. So there’s a few options there. And I took one of the best sessions from Fast Web Formula 2 and loaded it up to my YouTube channel. It’s over an hour long. And it was a high-level, evergreen webinar strategy that we talked about a year ago, and it’s only just become popular in the last few months, this whole concept of automated webinars, but we were talking about it a year ago at my event. So I dropped that out onto a free YouTube video, posted it to my Facebook and got a bunch of viewers and nice comments about it, but it really gives people a nice flavor of what is in the course. And I can now embed that video on my sales page for the DVD’s. So it’s just giving people a nice, big meaty portion of what’s inside without having them to risk anything or invest anything. And this is another reason why refunds will be low because they haven’t taken much risk once you’ve shown them what’s inside.

TIM: Well, I remember with Traffic Grab you gave away 4 hours, didn’t you? Or was it for videos? What was the—

JAMES: About 2 hours worth of free content. It’s like, you know, if you can’t figure out if you want to buy after 2 hours, I can’t help you, you know? There’s this really no category for that buyer that watches 2 hours of free content and still ask for a refund.

TIM: Can you give away too much, James?

JAMES: Definitely! Yeah, you could satiate the appetite and I could think of many, many marketers who I’ve never bought a product from but got lots of concepts from because of the free line of content. And it’s not because I didn’t want to buy, it’s just I guess there was no need to after I’d seen what was in the free line content.

TIM: Yep, Yep! I’m guilty of that.

JAMES: I mean, we do. We have a huge front end. We’ve got this podcast. There’s 25 or 26 episodes of great content. Although in our case, we do make a lot of sales because there is more to back it up. But some marketers, they lead with their strongest hand and there is nothing behind it.

TIM: Yeah. It’s a really interesting concept. Because once again, one of the things of internet marketers is that they do give away a lot and part of that is about building trust and, you know, building a community of people, but then yeah, there’s a line as to when—

JAMES: A good portion of my activities is giving away free stuff. I do a lot of free podcasts and blog posts and webinars and mindmaps and Facebook stuff. It’s okay because I’m building a pretty strong loyalty in the community that surround me. And they get to value the stuff. But I also don’t do refunds and I don’t deal with crazy customers. So I’m not trying to—see the opposite is the blind offers where they give you nothing, they don’t even tell you the techniques and then they don’t tell you what’s inside the tool you buy and they rely on the refund policy and the laziness of people to actually make a profit. That’s pretty much the opposite of what we do.

TIM: Yep! Good! Okay, so identify those stand alone’s and a part of that, I mean, that’s an entire strategy in itself, but some of them are going to, “You know what? They were really popular sessions. I’m going to package them up, give them their own sales page, reduced price, little sales video, all that type of stuff and sell them.” Others it’s about maybe identifying one of the sessions and giving it away for free as a taste for what else there is behind the curtain and—

JAMES: Also you could use them as bonuses, Tim.

TIM: Yep!

JAMES: You could say, okay, if you buy a ticket to this event or you buy this such and such a course and I’ll give you the module on blah, blah, blah.

TIM: Yep!

JAMES: And that works really well. So for example, when people buy optimized press from me, I give them a one hour video of James Dyson and a couple of other experts from my Fast Web Formula 2 event. Now, in that membership—this is the important part—I give them the video but I also have a suggestion that they buy the rest of the course. So you can actually make money upfront on your sales commission as the affiliate, plus you can then have a logical and appropriate value-add offer for those people who might then make another purchase from you. Do you understand what I’ve said? Just making sure.

TIM: Yeah, yeah, yeah!

JAMES: It’s a very powerful concept. And that concept alone was really my first major marketing strategy that was very profitable because offering a bonus product and then up-selling from the bonus product into the next logical step. So you’ve got the content to do that. You didn’t have that before. You could now swagger up to a product launch and offer bonus that other people don’t have and you have an advantage. Now you’ve got a captive market that you know what they like, you they’ve just spent money, and you’ve got the rest of the recordings to sell them. Then the other thing you could do is you could podcast about it. Just mention it in your podcast so that people become aware of it.

TIM: Yeah. I get excited about all the marketing opportunities it provides, and so I should—

JAMES: And here’s another thing that I do, and this is something you might want to do when you’ve got a few master classes, is pop one or two of the sessions into your other master class.

TIM: As bonuses?

JAMES: Yeah! To say, hey, so I’ve got Fast Web Formula 3 membership for people coming to my event. And in there, at the moment, are the Fast Web Formula DVD’s, plus I can add bonus videos whenever I want. So I could take one of the videos from my Super Affiliate master class and pop it in there and say I think this episode highlights a point I’m trying to make and I just want you to have it. There will be people who go, well this is pretty cool, I think I might grab the whole course.

TIM: Yeah. It’s amazing how much you can repurpose this content, isn’t it James?

JAMES: Well, it is. And that’s why it’s such a fascinating industry and it’s only up to your imagination. I mean, remember several episodes ago this was just an idea in your mind. You had nothing! And remember when you were learning the video stuff and I said you’re not possessing powerful weapon that you can use for repeated income. Now you’re stunned to see the potential in this because you’ve already made money from the master class, now it’s time to repackage it. I guess our listeners will follow your success on these implementations. And that’s basically it. Now, you could also, if you wanted to, you could combine something from our last episode and hold a little webinar where you take people through a little overview of the course. Give them some of the key learnings from the course on a webinar and then ask them to buy it and make them a special offer. So that’s how you could announce it to the market if you didn’t want to do a big product launch.

TIM: So let me understand. What you’re saying is go out to my list and say, okay, master class is over. It was highly successful and just was great in many aspects. I’m going to run a webinar that allows me to overview some of the key findings from it—

JAMES: You won’t call it a webinar. You’ll just say I’ve just done 8 weeks of master class Online Marketing Communications. It was a blast. I’m just feeling generous. What I want to do is I want to give you a free one hour coaching call and you’re welcome to come. There’s no charge. I just want to go through some of the highlights on the course. And I’ll also make a special offer for you, for anyone who turns up. If you come to that, I will make a special offer when I announce the availability of this course in the ready-to-buy format. So you being open about the purpose, you’re offering something of value to them, and it’s a nice way to introduce it to the market. And if you combine that with your press release, you announce it in your podcast, put it on Facebook and your blog, you should get a nice roll up to the webinar and build a little sub-list which you can now make generous offers to and cost from it.

TIM: Will you say it’s a live coaching call? I am sharing the key findings of 8 weeks of—

JAMES: Of course!

TIM: Yeah. Yeah. You’re not calling it a webinar. You call it a live coaching call.

JAMES: Yeah, because webinar doesn’t really mean anything.

TIM: Well, doesn’t work in spell check, so why should it work anywhere else?

JAMES: When you were saying in the last call that it doesn’t actually mean positive things for you, the way that people pitch stuff these days.

TIM: I don’t know! That’s my observation. I just see a lot of free webinars and I think why? Why are you doing that?

JAMES: Well, I’m holding a coaching call next week, a free coaching business growth coaching, and the way I’m marketing it is truly around value and it’s not going to be like those schlocky pitch fests. It’s just going to be pure content. But I’m going to do something a little bit different with a twist in the way that I run it. And it’ll be interesting to gauge results. I’m doing it to learn because I can repeat. If it works, I can repeat it over and over again. And I think it’ll work.

TIM: What’s the twist?

JAMES: I’ll tell you afterwards. It only works with surprise.

TIM: Hey listen, we’ve covered all the points, James, or you got one or two left?

JAMES: No that’s it. I told you to be simple.

TIM: Yeah, well there you go. It certainly wasn’t complicated. There’s a bit of a tech stuff in there, but I’ll be hand balling those puppies out to those who know. But –

JAMES: Just to put this in perspective, it took me about 45 minutes to do all of those things when I repurpose mine. I decided one night at about 9:30 that I’m going to put it up for sale and I just went and did some quick edits, re-upped the video, changed the button, changed the price, changed the name, stuck it in the auto responder, and then posted about it. It really wasn’t that difficult.

TIM: Brilliant, mate! Well, I’m going to get stuck into that. Now, thank you for sharing that and I hope that wasn’t too technical for those who are listening who don’t have a master class yet to turn it into an evergreen product, but maybe one day you will and you will be able to refer back to this episode. Hey James, I’m going to digress. You were telling me the other day, like me, you were doing a lot of work standing up. You’re loving it?

JAMES: Yeah. It’s been a week and a bit now and my body’s much happier for it. It was hard on the first few days, really tough.

TIM: Yeah, I know. I’m the same. It’s funny, the parts of your body. I’ll let you in a secret, hopefully the listeners aren’t listening, James. But when I was in the hospital having this neck operation, they gave me these white stockings which are to avoid deep vein thrombosis. And they’re kind of like—I think you get them on long haul flights, don’t you?

JAMES: I think you buy them at the chemist’s. All the athletes wear them.

TIM: Oh, that’s okay then! Okay, so it’s not a secret. Listeners, you can start listening again. But for the first few days, when I was doing standup desk work, I put them on and that removed a lot of the pain. Looked weird, knee-high stockings on the big fellow, but it removed a lot of the pain. But yeah, the whole standup desk thing is just been such a productivity going for me. I’m standing up now as I do this podcast—

JAMES: As I am, actually.

TIM: You are? There you go! Hopefully the energy—

JAMES: This is just killer productivity that I have a Mac up in the mantelpiece with a white board beside it, so—

TIM: Don’t remember your mantelpiece being that deep. How can you rest a Mac on the mantelpiece?

JAMES: Oh it’s deep!

TIM: Deep mantelpiece.

JAMES: I mean, it goes all the way to my elbow from the wall.

TIM: Do you stoke the fire while you’re—

JAMES: There’s nothing in the fire.

TIM: It is an empty fire, isn’t it?

JAMES: Let’s not go into heating.

TIM: No, no, no, no! We’re going to be covering heating in your and mine session at Fast Web Formula 3. Major point. Major, major point, but we’ll keep people guessing, huh? Alright mate, I reckon that is gold right there.

There is gold right there. If you want to—what do we call this episode? Let’s name it on the run. Is it turning a master class into an evergreen product? Or is there a better way of putting it?

JAMES: Yeah, that’s kind of what it is. But there’s a few killer tips thrown in there that I probably shouldn’t even have mentioned. But it just gives people an insight into this sort of stuff that we talk about in the high level programs.

TIM: We’ll bleep all the killer tips. You know how some podcasts bleep the swearing out, whenever there’s a killer tip, we’re just like *bleep* *bleep*. In fact, if you get a killer tip right now—

JAMES: Okay, this is a classic. Are you ready?

TIM: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! Yeah! Don’t look into the sun during a total eclipse.

JAMES: No, if you do this one thing, it will literally double your business. Are you ready?

TIM: Oh yeah! In fact—no, no, no, no, don’t give them that one! Give them the one about…you know the one you gave me the other day that if you apply it, I think it takes, it was about 7 or 8 seconds to apply. It can multiply your business tenfold. Give them that one!

JAMES: Yeah, okay! Alright, that was a good one. Alright, so what you do is [sound effects].

TIM: Well, James, that was amazing! I was reminded, there was part of that tip that you just gave that I hadn’t applied. So I was wondering why I only got a ninefold increase in my business. But anyway, that was amazing! I hope the listeners got the whole gist of that tip. Hey mate, we’re being a bit cheeky and I think it’s time to stop because you just don’t know where this is going to end up. It’ll end up in tears. It’ll clearly end up in tears. So mate, it’s been a pleasure swimming with you in the Freedom Ocean.

JAMES: This is the first standup episode.

TIM: Yeah, standup comedy!

JAMES: Not in the funny way.

TIM: (laughs) No, there will be more of that. There will be much more of that. I’ll make sure to be getting a motorized desk where I can go up and down as I choose. There’s a couple of memories, so I can be standing up, hit a button, it lowers to a sitting position and very, very common in the Scandinavian countries, James.

JAMES: Andy’s got one.

TIM: He has?

JAMES: He used it. We filmed the whole master class standing up.

TIM: There you go! There you go. In stockings!

JAMES: No, no stockings.

TIM: Hey mate, love your work! What should listeners do besides going and implementing everything we just covered? Go to—

JAMES: If they can’t implement everything we’ve just covered, they should go back to the master class where you were putting together the whole master class several episodes ago and start creating something.

TIM: Absolutely! Absolutely!

JAMES: Even if it’s small. Even if it’s just one webinar, one episode, and get that thing up, take if from live to post production into an automated product. That’s a great step.

TIM: Absolutely! Absolutely! And if you want more of this, listeners, go to freedomocean.com and you can check out, hook up with James and I on Twitter. You can check it out on our products page. You can go back to our back catalogue of podcasts where we covered a whole lot of other internet marketing related issues. So mate, thanks a lot and we shall see each other out in the ocean next time. See you, James!

JAMES: See you, Timbo!


  1. James and Tim you have outdone yourselves this time! Truly fantastic information for anyone looking to package information online. You guys keep delivering the good stuff by getting strait to the point. Side note: You guys sounded a lot better today standing up in the podcast. When I first stared listening I was thinking wow the boys sound great today and in wasn’t until the end that I realized…

  2. Stoney’s right… awesome podcast guys, from one of your most avid listeners.
    You’ve no idea how good the timing was either…

    Thank you!

  3. Wow! The info you shared is a breath of fresh air! Very impressive strategy, I must say. No one can do it better that you two can do.
    Thanks for sharing, James and Tim.

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