James and Tim are back in another informative episode of Freedom Ocean. This week they discuss something that many businesses lack, and share the top six things that are working for them in their businesses.
In the podcast:
01:54 – A lack of magical moments
03:01 – The customer service split test
06:54 – A standout resto experience
08:28 – The person makes the difference
11:07 – An eye-opening retreat
13:32 – The value of benchmarking
15:02 – Keeping a conference alive
17:02 – The number 1 thing working for James
21:36 – The rewards of having a team
24:59 – A lesson from lawn mowing
27:05 – The beauty of using voice
28:31 – Filtering out the noise
Internet Marketing Products & Resources
Here you’ll find Tim and James have some things to help your business become more powerful.
Tim: Good day, listeners, and welcome back to Episode 77 of your favorite Internet marketing podcast, Freedom Ocean. I’m Timbo Reid here, sitting in Melbourne, Australia, right over there is…
James: James Schramko, sitting in front of a stormy ocean here on the Pacific. It’s a little bit wild today.
Tim: Is it? And freshly off a plane, mate, or a week or so ago, so I reckon you’d be back happy to see that beautiful freedom ocean in front of you.
James: Yeah, I did a little bit of climate changing on the last trip. I went from Sydney to the Philippines, which was very hot, in the mid 30s, and then whipped over to London, which was like zero to 10 degrees,so it was quite a chill factor. And then back to the 27 to 37, we’ve had a pretty good range here. Loving being back home.
Tim: It’s always good to come home, mate. So what we’re going to do today is, you’ve had a couple of customer service experiences that are worth sharing, and then we’re going to talk about what’s working in both our businesses. We should do a bit of a top three for each of us.
James: Yeah, that sounds tops.
Tim: So Jimmy, I actually was interviewed on someone else’s podcast only this morning, it was all about retail. And one of the things we talked about is customer service. And in Australia, a distinct lack of it, or at least magical customer service, service that makes you go “Wow”. You had some good experiences?
James: Yeah, as you travel, it’s such a great chance to see what’s going on in the rest of the world. And I noted down a couple that I thought were remarkable, but it must be said, I went to a developing nation and then to a very old nation, you know, like a top, expensive world-class league nation, and there aren’t that many standout experiences even in different countries. But some of the ones that stood out for me, I thought I’d mention.
Tim: Can I just interrupt already, and just say, isn’t that amazing that there aren’t? Therein lies an opportunity for every single business online or offline, to think about how they can provide magical moments to make their customers go “Wow”, to be shareable through social media because people have had great experiences.
Customer service comparison
James: Well, you know, you’re familiar with the split test, right? Where you run two things at the same time and see which one wins?
Tim: And then try to beat it?
James: Well, I had a few examples where I literally got to be able to split test customer service. And that sounds weird, right? But imagine you’re sitting in the airplane, and then you have a steward on one alley and then a steward on the other aisle. And they’re both completely different. And people who are on one half of the plane are getting fantastic service and the other half are getting crappy service, from the same airline.
James: And having run a retail store in the form of a Mercedes-Benz dealership, I can tell you that a lot of the customer experience will literally come down to who they’re dealing with on the day. So I could be in the same plane with the same airline on the same journey, but have a completely different experience, because I’ve either got Dull Debbie on one side, or, you know….
Tim: Sexy Sue.
James: Well, Steve, actually. Steve, on Qantas. The Steve guy was just phenomenal. But he was on the other aisle.
Tim: OK, so this was your first experience? What was Steve offering that Sullen Susan wasn’t?
James: Well, Steve just cruises down, he introduces himself to every passenger in business class, he acknowledges if they’ve been back before, because he’s looking at his sheet, tries really hard with the pronunciations, just assures them he’ll be looking after their every concern for the flight. He checks in with them all through the flight, comes and updates their water bottle, gently wakes people up for breakfast. The other lady’s just like, doing the rounds, doesn’t give a sh**, and you know, just, probably a bad day or whatever. But literally, if you’re in A,B,C or whatever the seats are, versus J, K, F, you’re going to get a different flight.
Tim: Yeah, wow.
The VIP treatment
James: And then the Emirates flight was quite funny, because that’s one leg, Philippines to London, where I don’t get the upgrade because I switched airlines for that flight, and I’m just in economy, but this guy comes up to me, this steward, and he goes, “Welcome back, Mr. Schramko, I’m such-and-such, I’m your host for the flight.” Like, he singled me out in the whole of economy, because I’ve got the equivalent of Qantas Gold or whatever that translates to.
In fact, in Emirates, I think I’m like the top level, because somehow through my American Express, I get the Sapphire or whatever. So I’m showing up on their radar as a top VIP, and they just single me out in the whole cabin and it was almost embarrassing. They’re like, everyone’s looking at me after he goes, like,”Who the hell is this? Is he like a rockstar?”
Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
James: Like he’s just been targeted. So that was really quite extraordinary. And not only did he do it once, but another cabin member did it, so it was like, twice.
A lackluster service experience
Tim: I’ve got this similar experience with my local coffee shop, where I buy my coffee beans, right? And I’ve been going to this guy for years. And he still doesn’t acknowledge me when I walk in. Like yesterday, I walked in yesterday, he was serving other customers. But at the very least, he should, and I’m not saying because I’m – he should do this for everyone. Say, “Hi, Tim”, and just go back, just acknowledge my presence, right?
And then, my order is always the same, 250 grams of CCS, ground from our Rancilio coffee machine, is what I order. And I order it twice a week. And yet I still have to place my order.
Tim: What are you after? It’s like, really? So I guess the lesson from Emirates and from Qantas and from the local coffee store is like, just, kind of acknowledge who your customers are and you know, be friendly.
The happy waiter
James: Well, there was this other guy in the waiting lounge in London. I got there quite early, before I could even check in to go to the business club, so you know, like you’re out there, in the wild.
Tim: Were you excited, mate?
James: Well, you know, just a gap between checkout time and a P.M. flight, so…
James: I went to some restaurant, and it was really cool, it looked like the set of “Friends,” you know, like couches…
Tim: Oh, yeah.
James: Coffee tables and that.
Tim: Was Jennifer there?
James: She wasn’t. I know, I would have said, “Hi, Tim says ‘Hello’”, I know she knows you. But I sat down and this waiter, he comes flashing across, sits down on the little footstool, and he goes, “Why haven’t you ordered yet?” And I’m like, woah! And he goes, “All right, what are we hungry for?” And he’s just like, going through the possible options, he takes your order without writing anything down, goes and punches it in. He brings it out, goes, “All right, who’s having the steak?” and I raise my hand, and he mock-throws the steak knife at me. And I’m ready to catch it. He goes, “You were going to catch that, weren’t you?” I said, “Yeah, in my teeth.”
Tim: Ha, ha ha!
James: But he was hilarious. He was just having such a lot of fun with the whole experience.
Tim: This is in an airport restaurant?
James: An airport restaurant.
Tim: This is unheard of. What airport?
Tim: Oh, this is unheard of.
James: And it’s in the same terminal where Qantas flies, and it was…
Tim: He should be elsewhere.
James: It’s like Andz or something, I can’t remember what it was. But it was really good food and really good service, it was just a standout.
Tim: So far, the two, like both of those examples, the steward on the plane and your bloke in…
James: The person makes the difference.
Tim: The person makes the difference. And you know what, they’re both having fun. They’re just enjoying what they’re doing.
The people factor
James: Yeah. I did a little bus tour, because I had half a day where I could see some more things. I’ve been to London maybe five times, and I just wanted to go another layer deeper. And the guy that picked me up from the hotel foyer in the bus was hilarious. He was like Ricky Gervais. He was cracking jokes on the microphone, he was giving fantastic history, he was tricking the kids on the bus, you know, making bets with them and then winning.
He goes, “What do you think that’s called?” And they go, “Big Ben.” He goes, “You’re wrong! Give me your money, hand it over,” he goes, “It’s the Elizabeth Tower.” And so all of this stuff. He’s like, “Never make a bet with a Londoner.”
And then we get to the terminal where we start the tour, and we get this old grandma. We’re going past, she goes, “Over on the left here’s something, I can’t remember what it is.” I’m thinking, “You’re the freaking tour guide, you’re supposed to know what this is.” And at the end, she goes, you know, “If you want to leave a tip, you’re welcome to.” I’m thinking, “You didn’t earn a tip.”
It was a pathetic attempt at tour-guiding. She was racing off down the street with her silly umbrella before we could even keep up with her, like crossing the light before we could get over, like she was just doing her thing. So the contrast was this awesome guy, and then this really ordinary lady.
Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
James: It always comes down to this people factor.
Tim: Love it. Love it. And it does, you know? Anything you’ve just explained, we’ve just explained, is hard or expensive to implement. And you know, we are an online show, we talk a lot about online, but all this is a hundred percent, I believe, transferable to an online business.
And examples of that, I’ll give you an example. I was just reading through a sequence of emails that someone had put together and was showing me. And it was all very clever, like the welcome email, and here’s the e-book you’ve subscribed to, and we’re going to send you more emails, and here’s Day 2 email and Day 3…And whilst it was all presented well from a kind of flow point of view, there was no personality in it. There was no fun in it.
Tim: Like, have fun! You know? “Well done to you, for subscribing to the e-book,” as opposed to, “Here’s the link the link to download the e-book.” And just putting personality and fun into it, that can be your point of difference right there.
James: Awesome. So Timbo, what’s working for you in your business right now?
What every industry could use
Tim: That’s an excellent question, Jimmy. So what we’re going to do, top three each, we’re going to go one for one. And I’ve just, I was talking about this on the Small Business, Big Marketing show this week, I’ve just come back from a retreat of seven other speakers, keynote speakers. And I was very honored to be asked to join it this year. They get together each year, and these are people who have been in the speaking industry for decades, in some cases, decades, and are making millions of dollars a year from their speaking.
We got together in Noosa, for two days, and sat around a table and shared what’s working, what’s not working, and what are we going to do to build our businesses this year. That is working for me, the idea of coming together around a table with other people in your industry.
And by the way, some of these people, I lose jobs to. So we are competition, right? But we shared our numbers openly, we shared our strategies openly, and we were there to help each other. And it was amazing, mate. That’s the number one thing that’s working for me, and I suggest anyone in any industry take the lead and put together something like that for your industry.
James: Yeah, so some kind of a mastermind or industry body.
James: An industry discussion board.
James: How many people were there, Timbo?
James: Yeah, so eight people in the whole world are sharing best practice. You’d have to think there’s enough market to feed all of you.
Tim: Correct, correct.
James: This scarcity thing kicks in. I’ve actually had, one member once left my mastermind because I took on another member in a similar industry, and they were concerned that that was just going to…
Tim: Small thinking.
James: Augh. But then I replaced that member with another member in that industry, and the two people in the same industry not only share ideas and feed work to each other, but they even formed a podcast together. I mean to see the exact opposite mindset and how it resulted in such an extra profit for them was fantastic.
Tim: Yeah, yeah. There is enough to go around, and we don’t do enough of that. And again, many people listening, you’re living in your online world, you’re stuck in your cave, sometimes it’s good to raise the head three centimeters up from the screen and look out.
James: I think it was benchmarking that really helped dislodge me from my job, and that is becoming aware of other people in my field who were doing significantly better than I am, creating a gap that I wanted to solve. We used to do it in the Mercedes dealership, too, we used to benchmark with other dealers of the same size and demographics, so that we could get a feel for, you know, what should the labor rate be, what should the sales be, what’s the sales profit, what models are selling. And you’d learn stuff by comparing. Now it’s like when we’re kids with trump cards.
Tim: Yeah, yeah, totally.
James: Did anything shock you? Did someone’s number on anything shock you?
Tim: In terms of their turnover or their fee or whatever?
James: Just anything at all, like how many staff they do or don’t have, or how many gigs they do.
Tim: Well, now, yeah. What shocked me is really the question, not shocked, because I knew I was amongst giants, so these are people who are earning big dollars for keynote, who are doing lots of keynotes, and who have very few staff. It’s a wonderful business model, speaking, because you might have a full time VA or PA, the rest is a virtual team that you surround yourself with in terms of an editor or a designer or a writer or whatever it might be. All of them had speaking coaches, most of whom were standup comedians, the coaches, and we’ve spoken about that before.
Extending the life of a conference
The other thing, my big learning, and I’ll just make this my number two, what’s working for me as of this week, which is… You know, we get paid well to speak, and for me, up until now, that was the end point, it’s like “Great, got that keynote job, got a great fee for it, going to give it my best, and we’ll move on to the next job.” But these guys were very good, that was kind of almost the entry point into a business, to then say, “Well, how else can we help you?”
So it was like extending the conversation, and packaging up things. Because the insight was, conference organizers, their biggest problem is that, how do they make the conference live in the delegate’s mind after they get back to their work. And so the idea that I got from the retreat was to put together a series of monthly emails containing a marketing tip either via video or audio and sending it to the delegates.
And thats a complete package, it’s like the “Keep the Conference Alive” package that the organizer buys off you, and for me, it’s just an ideal way of continuing to work with that business. And I’ve put together a brochure on that, I’ve sent it to four conference organizers that I dealt with last year, and one of them has already taken the bait and loves the idea.
James: It’s great. I had exactly the same thing. I remember sitting in Mexico, and I said to a bunch of fellow entrepreneurs, this is sort of leaning on your first topic of a benchmarking mastermind, said, “I’ve been invited to speak at an event, what should I sell?” They said, “Sell a live event.” And I took that from just delivering a live event, which is what I did the first four or five events, to making my event a way to capture content, and to repurpose that into a membership. And now my live event really is actually the annual meetup for people who are part of my community.
So I’m going to go with point number one for me, the thing that is working for my business, which is just so incredible and the most amazing thing that I’ve ever done…
Tim: Wow. Insert drumroll please.
The number 1 idea in James’ business
James: Recurring income. It’s just this idea that each month, income comes in and it could be something that I sold a few years ago that someone has subscribed to, and they’re continuing to stay on board as a customer and I’m continuing to deliver value. Now I have that in various forms. Yes, I have a mastermind, I’ve got a membership community where I coach, as well, and I have services such as traffic services, content services.
So this core idea is the single most important idea that I put into play, because I see so many people selling one offs, one time projects that start and finish and then the income stops. And this whole industry of Internet marketing is still caught up with this launch cancer, where they do a big launch, push all the limits, strain their service, bring in the cash, handle the refunds, cop the bad feedback if they’re not getting delivered the result, and then, you know, the money runs out and they have to do it all again, and they get desperate, and they start pushing for prizes and joint ventures and stuff.
I just sidestepped that whole thing with this simple idea of focusing on recurring income solutions that are evergreen or sustainable for the long period.
Tim: Wow, you only need to learn from the telcos, with their phone plans and their data plans.
James: Yeah, telephone plans, Internet. You know, I was at Vodafone in the early 1990s in Australia when they introduced phone contracts to the market for mobile telephones. You know, when they were locking people in for 12 months or 24, subsidized handsets. Because the handsets cost $1,700 back then.
Tim: Yeah, yeah.
James: For a brick. And they had these plans and contracts, that whole thing. I think this recurring income is just the most incredible thing. And what it means is, I can constantly focus my attention, instead of being a typical marketer where I’m 90% focused on marketing and selling and 10% focused on delivering, I’m more 50-50: 50% delivering solutions and managing my team, and 50% on just continuing to develop content, pretty much in the form of podcasts and blog posts or videos or event recordings that I can reveal to the public. Speak at the occasional event, etc.
Tim: Yeah. Love it. Love it. I only said to my son, Jack, this morning, who is about to start uni this year, I gave him a book that I love called “The $100 Startup” And I said, “Mate, go and read that. I want you to read a chapter every two days, and then come and we’re going to talk about it.”
And this is exactly the conversation I had, it was like three hours ago, I said, “I want you to understand right now…” (he works at the local vet) “…You’re trading time for money, and I get that. It’s a good job, keep doing it, you’ve got a good network happening there, you’re learning great skills, but I want you to understand this concept of recurring income and starting…” Actually, I was specifically saying, “Consider starting an online business, I don’t know what it’s going to be, but this book’s going to give you some ideas, and see where that leads you.”
He’s about to go into science at uni, and he’s not going to learn all that stuff, so I want him to kind of just have another conversation going in his mind, so that when he does, if he does choose to go and work for the man, he’s at least got something else going along as well and it takes the pressure off.
James: Isn’t that cool. II was having a few beers with my son, Jack, last night, and having a similar conversation.
James: Talking about the time-based economy versus results-based economy and my tip for him was to just focus obsessively on what he’s absolutely, uniquely gifted at, and do it so well that he’s just a mile above everyone else, then just really drive down that core. And he’s doing that, and he’s really making a lot of progress in the thing that he’s the best at.
James: And to find his unique ability so early is great.
Tim: Yeah, totally.
James: Now, you popped, yeah, my second one is…
Tim: Number 2, Jimmy.
The value of a team
James: The thing that’s working really well for me is having a team, and in particular, the support team that is really the central hub of my business, because not only do they answer existing customer queries, but they also can answer prospective customer queries. And they’re especially good at helping those people find the right solution. So they’ve effectively become a sales support team in some way, where they’re able to serve the ongoing demands of our business without me having to be directly involved.
And this really comes back to the idea that for your business to grow, unless you are a keynote speaker, and even if you are, you’re probably still going to need at least a small team. But you will need, at some point, to have a team where it’s not you doing every role in the business. Because that’s how we typically start, but the sooner we start thinking about how we can get one layer back from the humdrum of support, the more leveraged we can be with our ability.
Tim:Mate, it’s something close to my heart, and it’s part of my 2015 pushes to be a bit smarter with that, because too many of us are doing everything.
James: A lot of people say, “What’s the easy step to make this happen?” and I’ll say without hesitation, “Get a support desk.” If you have any kind of online business, get a support desk that is away from your inbox. So it could be SmallBusinessBigMarketing.com/support, and you put a professional software tool there like a Zendesk or a Helpscout or whatever. And you might man it in the beginning, but eventually you’ll hire someone to do that.
For me, that was a huge stepping stone. I think I paid about a thousand dollars a month to have someone handling it part time, and that freed me up to do more than a thousand dollars’ worth of sales in other areas, and then I was able to scale on top of that. So that was just a huge leverage point for my business.
At the time, I was between five and 10 support requests a day, with the same thing. It was a monotony, it was people claiming their bonuses for the affiliate product that I was selling. And it happened every single day. And at some point I thought, “Hey, I could actually pay someone to handle this so I can go and do something else.”
Tim: And I think there’s a number of blockages that stop people from embarking on surrounding themselves with a team. One of them is obviously cost, and you’ve got to spend money to make money. And it sounds obvious, but I think a lot of people think this idea of getting a team….and by the way, it’s not about putting people on payroll, that’s not it at all. This is about surrounding yourself with a virtual team who work on a project basis.
Some might become full time. I know for you, James, they have, many have. But you do have to spend money to make money. What are you worth per hour, and what are you paying someone else to do something per hour, and if it’s less, and you can afford it, then do it.
James: Yeah, and a simple starting point for that, for me, before I went down this thing online, it’s just a home-based example, and that was simply crossing that mental barrier between me mowing my own lawn and me hiring someone else to do it. And I think at the time, me mowing the lawn meant changing into lawn-mowing clothes…
Tim: Love it.
James:…Getting petrol all over my hands, you know….
Tim: Love to see that.
James: Smoky lawnmower, you know, dragging it around in the heat in summer for an hour and a half.
Tim: Chewing on a husk of wheat.
James: Getting stone chips on my ankles. You know, I used to have a professional lawn-mowing round, so I was quite used to it.
Tim: You knew what you were doing.
James: Somewhat sick of it, but you know, then the edger and the wire, you’ve got to replace…
Tim: Aw, the edger.
James: …You need two-stroke fuel. And then at the end of it, you’ve got to go have a shower and wash all the crap off or have a swim in the pool. That versus me paying someone like 25 bucks or 30 bucks to just come and then go when the lawn’s immaculate. And my challenge was, can I do something that creates $30 worth of value while he’s mowing the lawn. I literally go and work on my website, or add an article or build a website for a customer, or promote a campaign with an email. I’d send out an email, and make a couple of thousand dollars, and that’s it – I’m not mowing the lawn again. And that was my stepping stone into this whole idea of exchanging money for time and making the numbers work out.
Tim: Yeah, right. Wow. I just want a photo of you on the lawn mower, mate, after all that.
James: Seriously, I had 21 lawns to mow when I was like, probably 20 years old. And it was a lot of work. That was sort of a partial step towards getting paid for a result rather than time. But if I’d been even smarter I might have started subletting that. I just wasn’t quite clued in to it yet. But I developed a lot of other advanced marketing strategies at the time.
The power of voice
Tim: Now, Jimmy, my number 3 is going to be a tool that’s working for me, more than a kind of philosophy, I suppose, or business concept I’ve been using. Because I’ve got this broken right arm, fell off my bike. One of the things I did was use Voice to Text, on the Macbook, which if you hit Function Function twice, it’s pretty accurate. And when I wasn’t doing that, I was using an app called eXtra Voice Recorder, it’s a plugin, actually, get it in the App Store. EXtra Voice Recorder, which is basically just replying to emails with an audio attachment. And I like that, it was a bit of a point of difference, it was a bit of kind of a personality attached to what I could say in those emails, and it was quick. So that was working for me as well.
James: Nice. Yeah, I’ve been a long time fan of the Function Function. And I’ve noticed it’s incredible on the iPad, which I’ve been using a lot more. I’ve really been trying to get off the laptop, and onto mobile devices for my business.
Setting strong filters
James: Basically, I run my webinars from my iPad, because GoToMeeting now has whiteboard, and you can start meetings on it, I couldn’t do it before. And if you use the little headphone set that comes with Apple, it’s so accurate, and I can rip through forums. Great tip. My tip is similar actually the thing that’s working for me is having really high definition noise filters on what I allow into my focal point.
Specifically what I mean is I’ve blocked most things that distract other people from being productive, especially Facebook, Twitter any sort of alert or device buzzer or reminder that’s telling me there’s a message waiting for me, and other tools that you can use to really filter things. If you’re in any kind of coach or consulting or you have to speak to prospects, I’d highly recommend that you use a scheduling tool, you know, like ScheduleOnce, so you only ever speak to someone when it has been booked in advance and they’ve already provided all the details you need. Basically, you don’t have to think about your calendar, you just open up your computer, you see what you’ve got scheduled for the day, it sends you reminders.
You’ve got all the information you need in front of you and now you no longer have these five emails back and forth, trying to figure out the time or the place or whatever and you’re not taking cold calls. So I actually have Skype switched off, for example. It’s switched off unless I have a scheduled call. I’m using Facebook for about an hour a week. I’m just not using it.
Tim: There’s discipline in that. Have you removed it from your bookmark toolbar? How do you not just go and click on it like most of us do?
James: The only time I’m going there is when I have to syndicate a post on my blog which is usually once a day or once every two days, I’m just going to go there. Or if I’m going to the shops, to go and buy some milk or something, I’ll probably take my iPhone and if I’m waiting in the elevator or hanging at the set of lights waiting for the green, I might just use the app then. So it’s something I do, I think Ed Dale says this, “Use the social media standing up.” Which means you’re leveraging your time more.
James: So I’m really not sitting on Facebook. You know there is any number of lifestyle gurus who are on Facebook for 12 hours a day. They have to be, to be so prolific. I still like to call this the hit and run: I get in, I check on the little notifications, see who’s mentioned or where I’m mentioned and go and respond or reply or approve, and then I get out. That’s it. In and out.
So setting strong filters, turning off Skype, moving my whole team to Slack allowed me to get off Skype and email. My email dropped from 10 hours a week to 2 and a half hours a week when I moved to Slack, and my Slack went up to 1 and a half hours a week so the net difference is phenomenal and that’s because I’m not getting hooked up in distractions from other people’s emails and other people’s Skypes.
Tim: Love it!
James: So try and get out of the inbox, that’s where having a separate support desk will help. So if you think about it, now all the customer contact is generally going to support. My team who run the support are contacting me on Slack, so I’m not in the inbox for either of those things anymore.
Tim: Love it, mate!
James: Well, these are the six things that are working for us, plus a few customer service experiences. I reckon we’re about done.
James: Yeah, we’re about done. It’s so good to catch up.
Tim: It’s lovely mate. Lovely to see you back.
James: You too and you’re what, 80 percent recovered now?
Tim: Yeah, I’m nearly there buddy. Yeah the arm is mobile. I can’t exercise, which is annoying me. I’ve put on a little bit of weight and I look forward to getting back to the gym and back on the box, so to speak, and doing that. Because even if you’ve fixed your head space and you’re fixed, you just don’t feel as healthy as you would if you were exercising like I used to, so that is not far away. Mate, been a pleasure, Episode 77 of Freedom Ocean is about to finish. The tide’s going out, so to speak, that is an ocean kind of thing there.
James: It literally is, actually.
Tim: Right, there you go. Mate, have a great week and listeners, you have a great week. If you want to find out more about Freedom Ocean, head over to FreedomOcean.com. You can find us on Facebook.com/FreedomOcean and we’d love to hear from you. Leave your review on iTunes if you love what you hear and you’re implementing, we’d love to hear that as well. Jimmy, see you next time, mate.
James: See you, Timbo. Have a great one.